 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: DNBoone
Date: 2011-04-19 17:35
Hello,
Sorry for yet another graduate school thread, but I was hoping to get a few more ideas for school I might want to try.
I am about to finish my degree in music education, but I want to do a masters degree in performance. I don't plan to make living performing, but I would like to play in chamber groups or give the occasional solo recital. My plan is still to teach middle/high school somewhere.
As of right now, the main places on my list are TCU, UT, and Texas Tech. I am not limited to Texas schools, I have just met a few of the clarinet professors and I am originally from there although I am in Florida now. I am mostly interested in playing solo and chamber literature, not so much orchestra and band literature although I still wish to play in ensembles wherever I go. A clarinet professor who plays bass clarinet would also be a huge plus but not a necessity as I am a avid bass clarinet player.
Thanks for any suggestions!
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Author: ronj
Date: 2011-04-19 20:43
Check out Florida State University. The college of music is very good, and Frank Kowalsky is a fine teacher. I recently attended a doctoral clarinet chamber recital and was very impressed.
In the interest of full disclosure, I received my bachelor of music education from Florida State.
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Author: William
Date: 2011-04-19 21:26
If you are going to get a masters degree, get one that is useful. A MA in perfrormance means NOTHING (except it does qualify for advanced placement on your future schools salary schedule--big deal). Why not get a masters in business administration which would qualify you for a future principalship (and more $$) or even a superintenantship position (lots more $$$). And later, if you get tired of teaching, you would be able to enter the world of business and finance--mega more $$$. I am sorry to rain on your performance major parade, but your education should be taken very seriously and you should prepare for as many alternatives as possible. A MBA course would still allow you to study with the university clarinet teacher and play in school ensembles--at least, at the University of Wisconsin-Madison campus (my old school). Then, you would have the best of all worlds--a valued and versitle degree and still be "all you can be" as a clarinetist.
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Author: clarinettist1104
Date: 2011-04-19 21:31
I would recommend University of Minnesota Twin Cities! Lots of competitions and opportunities, a fantastic environment to learn in, you have the Minnesota Orchestra right there, and the U of M's new clarinet professor is FANTASTIC!
Just my personal opinion
But it would be cold for someone who is used to Texas and Florida...
Best of luck!
-alex
Post Edited (2011-04-19 21:33)
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Author: DNBoone
Date: 2011-04-20 01:35
Re: William,
I understand the concerns. I would rather do something that you call 'useless' that I will enjoy than do something that you believe is 'useful' that I find miserable. And I take my education seriously and I take offense to your doubts of that. I believe that in order for myself to be a more successful music teacher I need to spend more time developing my own personal musicality and performance. Not only am I taking my own education seriously, I am taken the future students I will educate seriously.
I'm sorry that you deem playing music and becoming a better musician useless. Money is not everything to everyone.
Re: ronj,
I think I am going to pass on Florida State. I have met both professors there before and find I don't click well with them. In fact, I think I may bypass Florida schools all together. Thanks for the idea though.
Re: Alex
I will look into UM more. It would be a good possibility. I may also look more into Ohio State with Ben Freimuth.
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Author: Chetclarinet
Date: 2011-04-20 12:57
Good discussion here! You might consider the University of Houston also. Randall Griffin and myself have a large active studio, there are three excellent concert bands , the orchestra is first rate and obviously,the University of Houston is in a still muscially vibrant arts community with a ajor symphony, opera and ballet company. Randalll Griffin and myself perform with the Houston Ballet Orchestra and we are both bass clarinet oriented. I have been a professional bass clarinetist for 45 years in addition to the clarinet. We would be glad to hear you play! I also completely agree that continuing your musical education will add much knowledge and sophistication to your playing and your students will benefit greatly. I have had the priviledge of teaching at the elementary, secondary, and college level at various times and my life and have considered it a joy and a blessing
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Author: William
Date: 2011-04-20 15:37
DNBoone--nowhere did I say music was "useless". It has been a very important and rewarding part of my life since early gradeschool, through graduate school and a career of public school music education. What I was trying to emphasis was the importance of choice--of getting an advanced degree that would provide more alternatives for you later in life--such as a MBA, or in my case, a MS-Mus & Educ. A degree in performance does nothing if you decide later to leave education for another profession. It certainly does not impress any audition committe whose only concern will be how well you play, not who or where you studied. I just think that with a more versitile masters, you could still pursue teaching as a profession and/or professional level performance. I taught for over 35 yrs and all the while performend in orchestras, theatre pits, wind ensembles, jazz ensembles and a very popular local weekend wedding band combo. Now retired, I still do "all of the above" except the teaching gig. Also, and you can believe me, the older you get, the more important money becomes. Veratility in how many instruments you play is importand, and so is the quality of your advance education. Studing just "performance" is like eatting the frosting and ignoring the cake--feels good but does little for you. Music is usefull. As a prospective graduate student, I suggest that you excercise more accurate reading comprehension skills in your future studines than you did with my original posting. That you carelessly read what I intended to be sincere, carefully written, advice is what I find "miserable and offensive". I do believe you care about your education, I just think you need to think ahead a "few years" and leave yourself open for more future options.
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Author: Jack Kissinger
Date: 2011-04-20 17:46
William,
I'm sure your comments are well-intentioned but I think they miss the mark here because in focusing on the value of the MBA credential, you ignore the nature and amount of effort necessary to earn that credential. College degrees are like mouthpieces. One size doesn't fit all. As someone who taught in business schools for almost 40 years, I can tell you that the curriculum is not for everyone. Over the years, I've seen too many students with no interest in and/or little aptitude for the course material struggle miserably just to complete an undergraduate, let alone a graduate, business program.
Not everyone can handle an MBA program worth its salt (and tuition). In fact, many students can't meet the entrance requirements, particularly if their undergraduate degree wasn't in business, math, one of the "hard" sciences or engineering. The two biggest stumbling blocks? Two years of work experience and a solid quantitative background (read, "at least one calculus course"). Students require that background to make it through rigorous finance, statistics and operations research courses. And, while introductory accounting doesn't require higher math skills than algebra, it requires a quantitative mind set that many students, particularly those who originally have gravitated toward the humanities and arts, don't possess.
The odds of being accepted to a good quality program without a score of at least 600 on the GMAT exam (which tests calculus and makes the GRE look like a walk in the park) are almost nil these days. If a student is accepted, absent an undergraduate degree in business, the program is likely to require one-and-a-half to two years of coursework.
Are there "easy" MBA programs with low admission standards and less-than-rigorous coursework? Certainly. But their degrees have about the same value as you attribute to an MA in performance -- maybe less. And don't hold your breath waiting for recruiters to flood their placement offices.
As for the OP's exercising reading comprehension skills, frankly, I think your criticism misses the mark. As I interpret his statement, the OP wrote: "I would rather do something that you call 'useless' (study for an MA in performance) that I will enjoy than do something that you believe is 'useful' (study for an MBA) that I find miserable." He did not suggest that you ever said "music is useless." On the other hand, you wrote, "A MA in performance means NOTHING (except it does qualify for advanced placement on your future school's salary schedule--big deal)." To me, that implies that you consider an MA in performance worthless.
Best regards,
jnk
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Author: clarinetguy ★2017
Date: 2011-04-20 18:07
There are a few important things to consider before you get a masters in performance.
Are you planning to earn this degree before getting your first teaching job?
It is an unfortunate fact of life that some school districts prefer to hire teachers with only a bachelors degree (less money). Before you start working on your next degree, ask around in the areas in which you'd like to locate about hiring practices.
School districts want teachers to earn masters degrees while on the job, but in some places, there could be restrictions on the kinds of degrees that they will accept. Degrees in education, music education, and administration are very safe choices. A conducting degree is often a safe choice as well. A school district and/or a state department of education might not be as enthusiastic about a degree in clarinet performance. Again, I'd ask around in the areas where you'd like to work. It would be nice to get a performance degree for your personal enjoyment--absolutely nothing wrong with that--but realize that a future employer might be less than enthusiastic about it.
You said, "I believe that in order for myself to be a more successful music teacher I need to spend more time developing my own personal musicality and performance. Not only am I taking my own education seriously, I am taken the future students I will educate seriously."
As a former public school music teacher, I agree. However, music educators these days are often asked to wear many hats. It would be nice to tell a future employer that you are a wind instrument specialist and that you would like to teach only band. This might have worked in the past, but it won't work anymore. A person with a music education degree could potentially be asked in many states to teach anything (and possibly everything) from kindergarten vocal music to high school jazz band. If I had to do it all over again, I would take the time to learn more about vocal techniques, jazz, string instruments, and guitar. It really isn't ideal, but I'm currently seeing so many music teachers in my state who are asked and expected to be musical jacks of all trades.
I agree with William. If you want to get the performance degree for your own personal benefit because it's something that you really want to do, go for it. However, if you're doing it because you think it will make you a better music teacher, it isn't the best choice. It might make you a better private music teacher, but it won't be of any value if you are trying to help a percussionist learn flams or a violinist learn third position.
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Author: Dileep Gangolli
Date: 2011-04-21 01:06
I want to second Jack Kissinger's comments.
Do not think for one minute that the MBA path is easier than the performance path that you may currently be on or that, in this current economic climate, that an MBA is a ticket to fame and fortune.
Said as an MBA from Univ of Chicago '98.
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Author: pewd
Date: 2011-04-21 02:00
> A clarinet professor who plays bass clarinet would also be a huge plus but not a necessity as I am a avid bass clarinet player.
Professor Whitman at TCU is a fine bass clarinet player and teacher.
- Paul Dods
Dallas, Texas
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Author: ErikFranklin
Date: 2011-04-21 03:58
Kelly Burke at UNC-G is a fine teacher. You should check her out!
Also, check out the University of SC, Michigan State, and IU.
All of those have great teachers.
Too bad that you didn't enjoy Prof. Kowalsky at FSU - that's a great program.
I am a senior B.M. in clarinet performance, and I just finished this very same search. I ended up choosing IU, but these other places seem to have great, energetic professors.
Post Edited (2011-04-21 04:00)
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Author: Jack Kissinger
Date: 2011-04-21 04:47
Among the schools with good clarinet teachers in Texas, I'm surprised no one has yet mentioned Rice University with Richie Hawley and Michael Webster. In particular (assuming he remains active on the faculty), based on his series in The Clarinet, I think you would find Michael Webster an expert in clarinet pedagogy.
Best regards,
jnk
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Author: William
Date: 2011-04-21 15:30
I did not mean to imply that a MBA degree was easy to get nor is it a guaranteed course to "success". Only that it would offer more avenues of future opportunity than any "performance" degree--unless, as suggested, you intend to open a private studio. As for a school teaching position, I would rather suggest a MS-Edu degree and, as a grad student, that you take as many advanced instrumental techniques courses as your busy schedule will allow. Grad level conducting will be of great value (many public school directors are terrible conductors) and you might even consider joining the schools beginners string ensemble, just to learn about those instruments that you may have to teach. I was a clarinet major, but my offical "minor" instrument was the horn, which I studied privately for one year with John Barrows (NY WW Quintet fame) and performed in various horn ensembles. However, as a result of lots of techiques course, I can play almost any instrument found in any public school music program--which makes teaching those instruments a lot easier and most effective. Singing in a college level chorus would also be advised as you may have to teach that, along with your band, orchestra, music theory, music history and general music classes. Being versitile will help you get--and keep--your job. A MA degree in clarinet performance will not be of much help--except hanging from the wall of your private studio for easily impressionable people to see--advertisement value. However, if you aspire toward a college level teaching position someday, the MA degree would be a good "stepping stone" toward the DMA that you will need. So, if the MA in clarinet performance is your choice, you might just as well plan on staying in school for your DMA. Again, the MA performance degree, all by itself, is of little real value--especially in the "real world" and public school education.
It is important that you pursue a career than you find enjoyable and meaningful--and musical performance is certainly that. However, it is most important that you be smart and prepare yourself for a variety of life outcomes. It's human nature to change your mind at some future point and wonder, "what if???" My sincerest GOOD LUCK to you in whatever you decide.
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Author: ubu
Date: 2011-04-21 18:39
A person started a thread asking opinions about graduate schools. I must have missed the part where they asked anything about what they should major in or if it's valuable.
Too often, these threads are being hijacked and taken in directions they were not intended to go.
If you want to start a thread about your personal concerns and experiences, that's great. But, I think out of respect to the original poster(s), we should respond only to what they're asking. If you have nothing to contribute, move on to a thread where you do.
This forum is a wonderful place to share knowledge and exchange ideas, but is it really necessary for posters to go through message after message that have nothing to do with what they're asking in order to find the useful information?
I'm sorry to have taken this discussion further away from the original topic, but people are going stop posting if we keep disregarding what they're asking and turning every post into "You'll never work in this business."
Just a note. I edited this a bit after my initial posting because I felt it came across as a bit too harsh. I don't want to, in any way, contribute to a lack of respect between posters.
Post Edited (2011-04-21 20:15)
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Author: DNBoone
Date: 2011-04-21 18:46
I appreciate all the concerns and suggested schools. I understand why so many people are concerned about the value of getting the degree and such.
Re: William,
I have already play violin, viola, and cello for a number of years and bass some as well. I have also spent some time of the various woodwinds. Brass are my concern and I am spending time playing them already and taking mini-lessons from brass players here at school already. Thanks for the suggestions though, they are well-taken!
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Author: asabene
Date: 2011-04-27 20:36
Seriously guys, give William a break. You have clearly, upon my reading, grossly misunderstood everything he has said and twisted it. He offered honest advice. DNBoone can either take it or not. Why DNBoone is offended is beyond me. We are, after all, on an anonymous and informal discussion board.
I'll offer my advice to DNBoone. I would suggest getting the MA solely if you desire to open up more opportunities as a freelance performer or as a private teacher of advanced high school students. In my opinion, the skills you will acquire in a graduate-level performance degree will be less and less applicable to younger students. Music education, in my opinion, is a handoff from one teacher to the next, each specializing in different areas. I think a middle school teacher's main job is get the kids going on their instruments and get some of the basics across. Motivation is not important yet, in my opinion, because no middle schooler thinks band is cool or will let themselves think it's cool. Regardless, how a masters in performance will help you here, I do not know. In high school, I see the main job of the band director as the motivator. Those who become motivated early will seek out private teachers who will teach them the intricacies of playing and continue to pursue their instrument. You are welcome to disagree and you are even more welcome to prove me wrong in practice down the road. If your goal is to be a music educator, I'd more suggest focusing on skills directly related to teaching in a middle school or high school in an environment where you need to teach many different instruments and need to either get the fundamentals across or motivate.
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