 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: vreum
Date: 2011-04-10 20:34
You guys all seem to be insanely knowledgeable, so I'm hoping you can help me out! I played in school and swore I would never become one of those people who quit after graduation....well, I did. My former clarinet was an Artley. I think it was wood, but it may have been a VERY convincing substitute. Sadly, I don't even know the exact model. (hides in shame) I had upgraded to a Vandoren B45 mouthpiece and used Vandoren reeds (maybe 2 1/2 or 3?). I am now 10 years out of school and looking to get another clarinet (stupidly sold my old one to a neighbor). I am looking to take a chance at eBay since my budget doesn't allow for getting much more than a plastic fly-swatter if I buy new from a retailer. I'm open to hard rubber or wood, though if I'm honest with myself the hard rubber might be a smarter choice since my 3 children might want to try playing it too (ONLY under supervision, of course!)
Here's the sad part. My husband thinks I'm crazy for even wanting a clarinet again (he was in choir, not band so he doesn't understand). He thinks it's a passing thing and I won't even have time to play it. So, I'm limited to $150. I know it's not going to be easy, but I know it can be done. Any suggestions on the best way to go? Should I use part of that budget to splurge on another B45 and get a cheap instrument or should I go for a better instrument and deal with its native mouthpiece?
Thanks in advance!!
Valerie
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Author: Joseph Brenner, Jr.
Date: 2011-04-10 23:03
Dear Valerie,
Even though your husband may be correct, he AND every other human being (and many other members of the Animal Kingdom), may be crazy in some way too!
First, use the Search function up top (above your posting); that should turn up plenty of suggestions.
Second, there's nothing wrong with second hand.
Third, many clarinet players believe that rubber is as good as wood.
Fourth, for my money, I'd think Bundy--cheap used, built like a tank.
You may be able to pick up a used clarinet well within your budget, with enough left over for any needed repair.
Best wishes.
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2011-04-10 23:43
For immediate purposes, A bundy would probably work fine and be in that budget. Then you'll see whether you want to continue or not and then maybe up the budget in a few months.
Alexi
US Army Japan Band
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Author: clarinetguy ★2017
Date: 2011-04-11 00:26
You might also want to look for a used Vito. I've been really impressed with them, and you could probably find one in your price range.
As far as the mouthpiece is concerned, I might also consider a Vandoren 5-RV.
If your budget is limited, the Clark Fobes Debut is a nice choice.
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Author: Tony F
Date: 2011-04-11 03:57
Bundys are cheap enough on that site we don't mention, but I'd be more inclined to look for a Vito. I buy and sell a lot of student level horns via the net, and in my experience Artleys, Bundys, Buescher Aristocrats and Yamaha YCL20's and 23's often require pad replacement, either partial or total, whereas the pads they put on Vitos seem to be far more robust. I rarely need to do much to a s/h Vito, they're rugged and play well. They work well with a Yamaha C4 or a Fobes Debut, neither of which will break the bank. With judicious shopping and a bit of luck you could easily get this within your $150 limit and still have change for reeds.
Tony F.
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Author: Ursa
Date: 2011-04-11 07:10
If in need of a serviceable clarinet for bottom dollar, I'd also go with a Vito. They are all decent, with the V-40 being the nicest, followed by the 7214, and then the other models.
I recently found a V-40 in a thrift store for $100 that needed only a $12 tenon cork replacement to be perfect. It is a very good player, and I expect it will be the last plastic clarinet I'll ever have to buy. I also own a nice 7214, but the V-40 tunes a bit better through the throat tones and altissimo range.
Vitos are also sold as Holton and Normandy Reso-Tone clarinets. Be sure to search for these if browsing online auctions. Often, they sell for even less than identical Vito clarinets. I've seen some good-looking examples go for around $20.
Yamaha mouthpieces play well and in tune on Vitos, and are in the $30 range.
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Author: vreum
Date: 2011-04-11 09:04
I've checked the goodwill site and have found some great deals, but I live in Germany and nobody there offers international shipping. :-\ Living in Germany also makes me shy away from the clarinets that need even moderate work. Who knows whether I could even find the local music store, much less whether they will be able to re-cork or re-pad it or if I will be able to communicate that to them. I realize that I'm missing out on some awesome deals, but I don't want to get a bargain deal that only needs a little bit of work, but end up with a non-playing instrument because I have no way to get that little work done.
Maybe this is an unfair prejudice, but I have major reservations against a plastic clarinet. Especially Bundy. In band, those were always the worst! Maybe it was the players, but I formed a deep dread of the shiny black stick.
Here's what I'm thinking now. I've seen a few auctions for vintage Boosey & Hawkes as well as random makers from France. They usually look old, but in decent shape. I wonder if those would be good instruments if the price is low enough. Typically the more common names (Buffet, Yamaha, Selmer, etc.) automatically raise the price more than I feel the particular instruments are worth to me.
On that most unmentionable of sites, I have found the Ridenour Accelerando, which I assume is the precursor of the Lyrique, available for $225. I'm assuming this is a fantastic deal, but I'm not sure if I can talk my husband into it. Have any of you had experience with that specific model? Would it last a lifetime? I would rather not buy something now, but have to replace it in a few years. I would rather fight over the budget to be able to buy something that will last. Ideally, my kids will be able to learn on the instrument I buy now. (For reference, the $150 is just an ambiguous number my husband said is his "OMG threshold". It isn't based on what we can actually afford. If I can explain that the Accelerando is the best thing since sliced bread, he will probably be ok with it)
I see a lot of references to a Forte in older posts, but when I look at the website, they are listed as "$99,999" which I assume is their way of saying "unavailable" or "out of stock". Any ideas if those are coming back or how much they would cost?
I'm also starting to wonder if I would be ok buying a cheap model from amazon. They have a Hisonic Signature Series 2610 Orchestral Series for $99.99. It's gotten mostly good reviews, but I'm not sure that's a great indicator.
Advice? Thanks!!
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2011-04-11 17:12
RUN AWAY. The sites are full of garbage, put up with false reviews by the importers. Even from the Amazon photos, the Hisonic looks awful.
Get a local pro to go with you to a local store to pick something out. If you don't like the look or feel of the Bundy, get a Vito, Yamaha or Buffet. During the same session, the pro can pick out a mouthpiece. A plastic Yamaha mouthpiece will be inexpensive and just right for a (re)beginner. It plays easily, sounds good and is very forgiving.
Ken Shaw
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Author: vreum
Date: 2011-04-11 18:28
That was what I suspected from the Hisonic. I was actually surprised it wasn't on your list of questionable quality because usually the cheap ones are, so I wondered if it might actually be a decent instrument at a really low price. Glad to know my instincts were correct on that one! 
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Author: Ursa
Date: 2011-04-11 18:36
The Ridenour Accelerando is a plastic clarinet with a hard rubber barrel. The Lyrique 576BC is hard rubber throughout. It is very likely that the Accelerando does not have the same polycylindrical bore as the 576BC and would play differently.
Still, for just $225, I've thought of picking up an Accelerando myself. I already have a Ridenour 576BC clarinet, Encore mouthpiece, and Ivorolon barrel--they're all excellent products.
If you dread the "plastic clarinet sound", try adding one of Ridenour's Ivorolon barrels to a good plastic clarinet. I use one with my Vitos; it really smooths out the tone and makes delicate/finesse playing easier.
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Author: Franklin Liao
Date: 2011-04-11 18:49
Accelerando at the price point, if really are signed and checked by none other than Thomas Ridenour himself, would be worth the price on the labor alone. All the material debate, tone color and whatnot simply aren't nearly as importance of the setup done right. From what I have seen with what the man is capable of in the works put into the Arioso and Lyrique, a configured Accelerando will run circles around anything coming out of the Orient at its price range.
Moreover, I noted that the Chinese generally fare better with molded Resin/ABS/Ebonite than they are with 'ebony' works when it comes to entry level offerings. This is how I felt after Musikmesse about the state of affair with Chinese-make low price instruments.
EDIT1: Longtime advocate of Ridenour, Dr. Sherman Friedland talked about the Accelerando on his website too.
Post Edited (2011-04-11 18:55)
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Author: CarlT
Date: 2011-04-11 18:52
I started playing 3 years ago, and what I did was rented one for 3 months until I could locate a good one to buy. I rented a Bundy, and it worked out very well. Don't know if you can do that in Germany though, but if you could, it would at least buy you some time and allow you to play sooner possibly.
BTW, my whole rental for 90 days was less than $30. They had some kind of deal going on at that time.
CarlT
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Author: TianL
Date: 2011-04-11 20:46
if i were you.. i'd just go onto "That site we are allowed to mention" and watch for a good-value entry-level yamaha or buffet to come up.. sometimes they ended up selling for extremely cheap price, and could be way below your budget limit. I would also pay attention to the seller's rating as well as the condition, would be nice if it's in ready-to-play condition.
actually i just checked.. there are whole bunch of yamaha 20's there right now that are below $150..
IMO, i would be much better off with a used yamaha than a new vito or bundy.
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Author: Franklin Liao
Date: 2011-04-11 20:48
TianL: The problem with this is that the amount of counterfeit Yamahas and Buffet B12's getting a bit staggering...
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Author: JJAlbrecht
Date: 2011-04-12 00:05
Tom Ridenour has a pretty decent track record of making affordable, hiogh-quality clarinets. If uoi go to that Infamous Unmentionable Auction Site, and use "ridenour clarinet" in the search, you will find a new model of entry level instruiment,being sold directly by Tom. It's called an Accelerando, and is available for an EXTREMELY reasonable price! His online identity/seller name is Billyboy647.
Jeff
“Everyone discovers their own way of destroying themselves, and some people choose the clarinet.” Kalman Opperman, 1919-2010
"A drummer is a musician's best friend."
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Author: weberfan
Date: 2011-04-12 01:15
Vreum,
You said we were "insanely knowledgeable." You can say that again.
Look: Get a Yamaha 20 or 250 (the 250 is the updated model). You can buy a good one through clarinuts.com (also known as musicremasters.com) for about $240. Higher than your budget, but probably in good shape. Clarinuts is a sponsor of this board and reliable. Bundy is OK, but not as good, in my view. But whatever you get, get a good mouthpiece and reed. You'll be fine. Good luck.
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Author: Jaysne
Date: 2011-04-12 02:10
For $150, you need to go Yamaha, Vito, or Bundy. Ridenour if you can lay out some more cash.
That's all. Don't try to get "a deal" on a better instrument. You'll end up regretting it.
P. S. As far as the "plastic clarinet" sound goes, I played a plastic Vito professionally for years and was quite happy with it. I even had one music director who was astounded to learn I wasn't playing on a pro horn. Of course, I had the chops to be able to sound that way, but I just wanted to point out that any clarinet is only going to sound as good--or bad--as its owner.
Post Edited (2011-04-12 02:11)
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Author: JJAlbrecht
Date: 2011-04-12 02:11
TheRidenout I mentioned above is $225. Not a great deal more than your budget,if you can swing it!
Jeff
“Everyone discovers their own way of destroying themselves, and some people choose the clarinet.” Kalman Opperman, 1919-2010
"A drummer is a musician's best friend."
Post Edited (2011-04-12 02:11)
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Author: JJAlbrecht
Date: 2011-04-12 03:15
You might also want to point out that I bought my first clarinet, a Bundy, back in 1968. It was new at the time, and was $165.00+tax
Jeff
“Everyone discovers their own way of destroying themselves, and some people choose the clarinet.” Kalman Opperman, 1919-2010
"A drummer is a musician's best friend."
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Author: TianL
Date: 2011-04-12 05:09
To Frank: yeah but those are all new and to me they are extremely obvious.. they are shipped from China and all have the same serial numbers and way too cheap for new clarinets.
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Author: TianL
Date: 2011-04-12 05:13
Haha David S you should sell your Uebel to her Or maybe something else.. you have so many clarinets!!!
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Author: Wes
Date: 2011-04-12 06:52
Recently, I overhauled for free a plastic Vito for my granddaughter's friend with no money and I was surprized how well it played after being set up properly. I had to shorten the barrel about 2mm(1 on each end by sanding) because it was on the flat side with the Noblet mouthpiece on it, however. The rings were lowered by me and all the pads and corks replaced.
The plastic Yamahas I've tried have also been pretty good, also.
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Author: Ursa
Date: 2011-04-12 07:37
Wes, your experiences mirror mine with the Vito 7214. I had a technician recommended by my clarinet professor retension a couple of springs, adjust the rings, and do tuning adjustments on the throat G# and A. The clarinet was surprisingly good after this TLC.
Still, the V-40 I now have is even better. I sometimes wonder how truly fine it could be with cork pads installed and careful regulation throughout. Someday it will need an overhaul and I'll find out...
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Author: Tony M
Date: 2011-04-12 12:21
Unfortunately, I think that clarinet only ships within the US. You might email the seller and see if they would ship to Germany.
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Author: Tony M
Date: 2011-04-12 12:28
I would have thought that the Ridenour was a good option but if it doesn't ship to Germany then I think that the Vito is a good idea. I have a 7214 and it developed a crack in the lower joint. I found another in a pawn shop for $50 and replaced the whole section. I've never had anyone mention the fact that the serial numbers don't match. There's a lot floating around and that's good for repairs and spare parts. And, as someone mentioned earlier, they play well with a Yamaha 4C mpc, which is fairly cheap. They also play well with a Hite Premier which is also relatively cheap.
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Author: vreum
Date: 2011-04-12 13:30
I'm very surprised to hear so many of you defend plastic clarinets! I can definitely concede that in my experience, it may very well have been the players at fault, but it still surprises me that you guys have had such great experiences when the "industry" shuns them like lepers. Do you only have good experiences because you make such modifications or because of using better mouthpieces and barrels? Do you alter your playing style to produce a fuller sound? I'm just curious as to how you have had such success with instruments everyone else says are only suited for 1-2 year beginners.
As for me, I actually found a wooden French model on "that site" that looked like it was in excellent condition so I placed a ridiculously low bid on and won. It's only going to set me back $70 even with shipping! I've got plenty left over to buy a nice mouthpiece and some reeds. Maybe a new barrel, but I'm sure if I'll need one. :-) And, if it does turn out to be a lousy instrument, I can let the kids learn with it and maybe convince my husband that I should get the Accelerando. :-P
I've seen a few mouthpiece suggestions floating around here. Should I look to buy new? The idea of a used one kinda bothers me, but they should be able to be cleaned and disinfected, right? I'm really wishing I had kept my mouthpiece when I sold my clarinet to my neighbor! I think it alone was worth more than I sold the whole thing for! :-\ Live and learn, I guess....
David S - Ha! I don't think those would fit in my budget somehow. ;-) Though, I am curious. How is the German system? I almost wanted to get one just to satisfy my curiosity, but I wasn't sure how the learning curve would be and I wanted to be able to enjoy the clarinet as soon as I got it without having to "re-learn" more than I already need to. Maybe I should call the Uebel store and see if they have any slightly used bargains. They're only an hour away....
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2011-04-12 19:58
F. Arthur Uebel also made very nice Boehm-system clarinets (I just happen to have one), along with Oehler-system soprano and bass clarinets (I have one of each of those as well). Tian is right, I have WAY too many clarinets! Ain't life grand?
![[toast]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/smiley15.gif)
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Author: Franklin Liao
Date: 2011-04-12 21:18
Isn't Uebel a disciple of Oehler? I did see 1 or two Boehms at their display, but...
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Author: annev
Date: 2011-04-12 21:36
Hi Valerie,
You may be interested in this web-site: www.clarinetpages.net. Phil is a professional clarinetist who repairs clarinets (it's a hobby, but he does very good work). He sees quite a variety of clarinets, which he reviews on the website. His special interest is in vintage and/or french stencil clarinets (french-made clarinets that are sold under a number of names other then their own). If you have a little known or unusual clarinet you may find your brand or model there and have a sense of what you've bought. There is also a lot of other very useful information on the site. Phil is very reputable and is usually willling to answer questions. He's out of the USA at the moment, so will be a little slower at answering e-mail, but he always does get back to people.
One other thing you may wish to think about. Most clarinet manufacturers changed from making straight-bore to polyclindrical bore clarinets in the 1960s and 70s. If you have an older clarinet it may have a straight bore. Many older clarinets still have beautiful tone and response, but the intonation is seldom as good as with the polycylindrical bore models (usually the lower chalumeau notes are sharp on the straight-bore clarinets). It may not bother you, but it can become an issue if your ear is very good, or as you progress and play more with other musicians.
Happy playing and enjoy your new clarinet!
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Author: ohsuzan
Date: 2011-04-13 04:25
Valerie --
Is the clarinet you bought an Evette model Buffet? If so, you did very, very well. Here's hoping it's in good shape. But it's a really OK clarinet -- better than the Artley you had years ago.
And it looks like there is a mouthpiece with it!
Susan
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Author: TianL
Date: 2011-04-13 05:38
by the way, you MOST LIKELY will NOT need to buy a barrel.. unless the one you get is cracked.
as for mouthpieces.. i guess first you need to take a look at what it is on there, and who knows? sometimes they happen to come with decent mouthpieces (like a vandoren).
but mouthpieces are very personal things, everyone has different opinions about them. if you want new ones, you can get them from wwbw.com.. they have a nice trial/return policy. if you want used ones, they are probably way cheaper on that site.. or you can ask David again, he not only has lots of clarinets, but also a lot more mouthpieces
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Author: AlohaAnn
Date: 2011-04-14 15:01
In my humble opinion, if you can, rent first. You can find such a thing on the internet if not in local shops. Five years ago, I started playing again after 30 years. I joined a community band right away which was the best thing I could have done. When you are ready to buy, you have been given excellent advice in this thread to steer you in the right direction. Happy Playing!
AlohaAnn
Buffet E11
Yamaha 221II Bass
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