 The Clarinet BBoard
|
Author: Monkey Allen
Date: 2011-04-03 00:16
I was wondering if anyone has noticed a decline in the quality and consistency of V12 reeds?
It could just be me, but they seem to be very unresponsive these days. It's particularly noticeable when playing quietly and seems to be giving a very 'fluffy' sound making it very difficult to focus. It's less noticeable on a slightly more closed mouthpiece, but it is still apparent.
I've used these 3 1/2 strength reeds for the last seven years and it only appears to have become a problem for the last year.
Admittedly, I've never found the resolve or dedication to spend time adjusting reeds myself and therefore, have little knowledge of why this could be happening.
If nobody else has experience a similar problem with these particular reeds, some recommendations on other brands would be helpful for someone moving away from V12s. Or even any tips I might be able to do to relieve this issue of 'fluffy' reeds.
Thanks for any help.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: TianL
Date: 2011-04-03 05:00
i personally think the rico reserve classics is the more consistent than the V12.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: sonicbang
Date: 2011-04-03 11:50
My problem with Vandoren reeds dates back when they started to use that flow pack. Their new reeds with serial numbers are more consistant than the previous ones. I found if I open the flow packs 2 weeks before I start to use them I get better results.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: dtiegs
Date: 2011-04-03 12:35
The same here... I don't know if it's just us or it's just because I'm a student.
I've been playing the 3 1/2 for six months now and "fluffy" noises seem to be more apparent that ever.
My private instruction is experimenting with MozartReeds and loves them. I haven't yet to try them, but soon hope to.
Best of luck,
Dalton
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: RJShaw0
Date: 2011-04-03 13:19
Hmmmmm sonicbang that one has struck a chord (hohoho!) with me....
I often open a reed out the flow pack, play it, and find that is a bad one. Then after a week or so when I'm going through them all I play it again and suddenly it might be my best reed out of the box. I can also have my best reed out the pack going to the worst in the same time frame, both hardly being played!
Food for thought/trial...
RJS
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: kdk
Date: 2011-04-03 14:44
FWIW, I've never really understood the rationale behind the flo-packs. At best they preserve the humidity level at which the reeds were manufactured and sorted for strength. But the humidity where I open and use them is more than likely different, so I'm not sure what the advantage is. To me it's more work opening all those foil packets than slipping new reeds out of a plastic holder and I'm not convinced anything worthwhile is being preserved.
Also, FWIW, the V12 reeds I've bought over the past year or so do seem harder than the same strengths had been previously. I've just gone down a 1/2 strength and found the harder reeds in a box to be equivalent to what I had been using in the heavier strength. This happens, in my experience, in cycles that I certainly can't explain. Overall, though, I think Vandoren reeds are without a doubt more consistent (at least reed-to-reed within a box) than they were, maybe, 20 years ago.
I recently bought 10 reeds each of Reserves (2 boxes of 5) and Reserve Classics (1 box of 10). They all vibrate much better than the ones I bought when the Classics first came into general distribution. So I'm not sure that any brand is immune to these changes over time - cane comes in annual crops and I suppose some crops, because of weather conditions, are better than others. Maybe they should start identifying the harvest year of the cane on the boxes (ah, yes, this is a box of 1972 Méditerranées that I've saved for a really special concert - that was a great year!).
Karl
Post Edited (2011-04-03 14:44)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Wes
Date: 2011-04-03 19:23
On a "fluffy" reed, try lightly sanding the dry tip a little, wetting it, and playing again. I prefer silicon carbide 450 paper for this, available at tool or hardware stores. How about using a #3 reed?
In my opinion, the V12 #3 reeds have been very good and consistent for a quite long time. I buy them and break them in for myself and three granddaughters by several cycles of wetting, drying, and sanding before trying them. It seems to work as one granddaughter, 17, played with a group in Carnegie Hall three weeks ago. Good luck!
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2011-04-03 19:39
Independent of reed brand, I find that (insert your current brand) reeds behave differently in spring and in fall. I don't believe it's inconsistency in the reed but rather inconsistency in the weather, with heating vs outside temperature, with A/C vs April weather.
To cope with that I have a "2nd favourite" brand or strength at hand, and simply switch until things magically stabilise in summer or winter.
Re the flow-packs - they're great for giving away individual reeds (I always toss in two or three of the customer's preferred strength when I sell an instrument), but apart from that...pff, no idea. (V's aren't my favourite brand anyway)
--
Ben
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Tony M
Date: 2011-04-04 03:09
Sorry to move off topic but, RJS, you seem to be from the Brisbane area. Where do you buy your reeds? I've yet to find somewhere that stocks any kind of range of reeds or anything to do with clarinet.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Monkey Allen
Date: 2011-04-04 03:54
Thanks so much for the responses. I'll give your thoughts and tips a try and come back with the results.
With regards to the Rico Reserves, what would be a suitably strength equivalent for V12 #3.5? I'd like to give them a try.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: RJShaw0
Date: 2011-04-04 06:48
Hey Tony, I'm on the Gold Coast actually, so I go to Gold Coast Brass and Woodwinds in Southport.
There is a Brisbane Brass and Woodwinds however in Red Hill, though I haven't been there, yet. They're on the web.
RJS
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Tony M
Date: 2011-04-06 05:23
Thanks, RJS. I know the shop but they don't have much by way of variety. Good luck with the ensemble (from the other thread).
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Bassie
Date: 2011-04-06 11:05
My theory, please shoot it down:
So you're a reed manufacturer. You grow a load of cane, grade it, split it and make blanks, cut your trademark reed profile on it, and then measure all the strengths. And then you have to fill a load of boxes labelled 1-5, with some idea in advance of how many of each people are going to buy. Stands to reason some years the 3.5's will all be a bit hard. Also I have a suspicion that some manufacturers play around with the blank thickness to achieve the right hardness distribution, but I have no real evidence for this except for watching different brands change over the years.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: William
Date: 2011-04-06 14:16
Are V12 reeds in a "state of decline"?? I would suspect, NO. Cane reeds have always been inconsistant and unruly, especially for the clarinetist's who have not learned how to properly prepare and adjust them for their mouthpieces. As for the last two years, I cannot comment specifically as I have been using Forestone reeds in place of my former V12's. Forestones are consistant, play the same all the time, last indefinately and play with a rich, resonant sound throughout the clarinets entire range. As you all know, cane reeds change frequently--and sometimes, when you least want them too (just before your big solo, etc). I'm happy playing synthetic reeds and use them on all of my woodwinds. For me, that's Forestone.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Franklin Liao
Date: 2011-04-06 17:37
Just to add some ammo to William, I play on synthetic because I am a lazy, lazy bum. The Forestone and Legere Signature are neck in neck for me, coming out of Musikmesse having stuffed my mouth in them and kiss my muscle strength goodbye.
I should see if I can get ahold of some Rico and Vandoren tomorrow...
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Ed
Date: 2011-04-06 19:10
FWIW- I have tried both of the big name synthetic reeds and did not like either. I disliked the response and tone and found that for me they were unusable.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Barry Vincent
Date: 2011-04-06 23:24
Now here's a real mystery, some say that the new synthetics are the best thing since sliced bread, and others say they are unuseable.
What the heck is going on ?
Skyfacer
Post Edited (2011-04-06 23:24)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Luuk ★2017
Date: 2011-04-07 14:30
Hi Monkey,
How about wear of the mouthpiece?
Regards,
Luuk
Philips Symphonic Band
The Netherlands
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: NBeaty
Date: 2011-04-07 14:46
I am 100% convinced that there is a noticeable difference in sound when using synthetics that is negative. However, it does not mean that they can't or don't sound good.
A former teacher, who is principal in a major symphony, switched to them for a while and agreed that there was a noticeable difference in sound and it was really about 90% of what he wanted in sound, but provided better predictability in most other aspects of playing (response, pitch, etc.).
At the end of the day it's a compromise.
to the OP:
V12's certainly have not gotten better. I have heard from various sources that the cut has changed slightly since the flow packaging started, although I also heard the flow packaging was really a counterfeit foiling measure more than anything else.
It bothers me that V12's are advertised as "advanced" compared to other vandorens. There's nothing more advanced about playing a v12 than a blue box and the cane is the same.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: John Peacock
Date: 2011-04-07 17:45
I'll add to the evidence: encouraged by comments on this board, I tried Legere but couldn't get on with it - didn't like the feel or the sound it made. Haven't tried Forestone, but since some people seem to find them similar to Legere, I'm not encouraged. Some very good players seem to use these reeds with good results, but maybe this just says they're very good players...
I also heard the story that the ghastly Vandoren packaging was to stop counterfeiting (and I do like NBeaty's "foiling" pun).
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: janlynn
Date: 2011-04-07 17:53
the v12's have a thicker heel. is that what makes them "advanced"?
has anyone tried the 56 riu lepic (sp?)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: NBeaty
Date: 2011-04-08 05:08
@John: I actually didn't really realize the pun at the time, but in retrospect it is pretty funny.
@Janlynn: The thicker heel and wider tip shape (a bit more square) and more dark or mellow sound appeals to many in the clarinet community, especially in the states. Basically, the tip is thinner and the heel is thicker, creating a different type of resistance.
Rue Lupic are shaped like the old morree style reeds, which are thick at the heel but have an angled shape (The butt of the reed is thinner from side to side than where the bark starts in the middle of the reed). This "thinning" from side to side over the length of the reed decreases backpressure that would be otherwise apparent (although it is still noticeable compared to thinner blank reeds).
The reality is that most "new" and popular reeds on the market today have a thick overall blank (heel, most noticeably). To keep the reed responsive and vibrant, you have to subtract from another place if you add wood to one place. Many times the reeds in this style can have tips that are too thin (either at the middle or, worse yet, the 'ears'). Also, they can have a more extreme slope from heel to tip.
Personally, I don't find much, if any, benefit to increasing the thickness of the reed blank. I notice some negative side-effects from the compensations necessary when reeds are made this way as well.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: clairmusic
Date: 2011-04-09 00:55
V12's have never been to consistent with the cain as the the traditionals have been pretty good. V12's have a darker tone. I've played on vandorens for 20 yrs until recenttly. I've switch to rico classic reserves. they play right out of the box and have great response, color, and are really focused. they were designed bt Mark Nuccio ppl cl of the NYP. I love these reeds. I still play on van tradtionals from time to time thou .
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: mihalis
Date: 2011-04-09 02:10
Reply to Tony M.
"Where do you buy your reeds? I've yet to find somewhere that stocks any kind of range of reeds or anything to do with clarinet."
Hello Tony.
I am buying all my reeds from Reeds And More.
The webside is http://www.reedsandmore.com.au/
Try it.
Mike.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Tony M
Date: 2011-04-09 13:46
Thank you, Mike.
They certainly have variety. I will try them soon.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
The Clarinet Pages
|
 |
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
