 The Clarinet BBoard
|
Author: Bb R13 greenline
Date: 2011-03-20 22:13
What does the voicing groove do the pitch? Does it affect tone?
*also is there any difference in sound between flat and the rounded bells? I'm fully aware that I should try multiple for myself but unfortunately can't get more than 3
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: JJAlbrecht
Date: 2011-03-20 22:18
Send Morrie an e-mail or call him up on Monday. They are more than happy to answer questions at BMS and make suggestions!
Jeff
“Everyone discovers their own way of destroying themselves, and some people choose the clarinet.” Kalman Opperman, 1919-2010
"A drummer is a musician's best friend."
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Bob Phillips
Date: 2011-03-21 16:31
I have a voicing groove in the bell of my stock Buffet RC.
I can't see it
I can't feel it
I can't notice it
I can't tell the difference if one of my colleagues swaps a grooveless bell onto my horn and hands it back to me...
Bob Phillips
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2011-03-21 19:50
But you FEEL better knowing it's there, don't ya, Bob? And feeling good is what it's all about. ![[grin]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/smilie5.gif)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Bob Phillips
Date: 2011-03-21 22:45
I'd feel a lot better, Dave, if the low F and E were not so danged flat.
On my music lesson question list for this week:
"Since I can't lip that next to last note (the low E3) into tune, should I play the last slurred-to E5 two octaves higher flat, too?
Voicing groove...
Bob Phillips
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2011-03-21 23:10
Well, if your low E and F are that flat, then ya needs a hole in yer bell, not a grooove.................
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Bb R13 greenline
Date: 2011-03-22 03:54
my low e actualy is not that flat maybe 10 at most but never anything i cant lip up. so in short the groove raises the pitch of the e/b? maybe thats a bad thing then since im usualy in tune on it? looks like im gonna have to end up flying out to try it
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: clarnibass
Date: 2011-03-22 05:16
I thought "voicing groove" meant voicing the notes in a funky way... 70s style... something like that...
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2011-03-22 11:14
My personal opinion is that "voicing groove" means "arcane voodoo nonsense added to justify higher prices". But no doubt Morrie will prove me wrong on that. I'm still waiting for my "100 m.p.g. carburetor" to arrive in the mail.
Whaddya mean, you don't know what a carburetor is? Sheesh, kids these days.......
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: sfalexi
Date: 2011-03-22 13:48
I've got in my possession a leblanc bliss 210 which has a voicing groove. I BELIEVE the intent of it is to produce a slightly less resistant long B and put a little sonority into it.
If you go to Tom Ridenour's youtube pages where he frequently posts 5 - 8 minute clips on various situations, there is one about the Long B. In this particular clip, he states that on almost every clarinet, he felt a better sounding and less resistant B could be achieved by pulling the bell out about one mm. This would create a little "gap" at the joint/socket which is (from what I can) pretty darned similar to what the voicing groove accomplishes.
So maybe Backun understood that the little "gap" in the bell seemed to work, and just made it easier by installing a "gap" on every bell, calling it a voicing groove? Seems it would accomplish the same end as pulling the barrel out a mm or so. It's in a slightly different area of the bell, but Morrie has MORE than enough tools, wood, and capital to do a little experimenting to find the best placement of such a gap. It may not be ideal for EVERY clarinet, but I'm sure he found the best "compromise" spot that would help MOST clarinets very much.
Alexi
US Army Japan Band
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Franklin Liao
Date: 2011-03-22 13:56
Alexi, I noticed that bells with this this kind of chamber or groove do have an effect, and that not all horns are affected equally. When I had the Bliss, I played around a little then and found that certain clarinets fare not so well at bell note when paired with bells that have such groove versus that of Bliss itself, which benefited from having the bell.
On Ridenour's C clarinet, the hole on the bell I guess serve to the same effect. From what I've experienced, based on about 4 C clarinets in all, the bell resistance is slightly more pronounced on them comparing to Bb for some reason. This is taken even further with Forte' C, where there is that chamber coupled with the hole on the horn.
I don't know if I am right to conclude that the issue with stuffy bell note has no set solution, which leaves placement of tonehole, use of correction keys, or/and bell compensation as equally valid approach. So felt this ignorant fool.
Post Edited (2011-03-22 15:08)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: donald
Date: 2011-03-22 20:02
I can't speak for the Backun voicing groove, but RC bell doesn't so much have a "groove" as a ditch... the purpose is to increase the "volume" or "capacity" or the bore dramatically without increasing length. It's as though a maker has chosen this spot in the bore to adjust the cone and then gone overboard, creating a significant change to the dimensions. I can't imagine this having no effect on the playing characteristics (considering that bore adjustments of .01mm have measureable acoustic effect), and certainly it is quite different from drilling a hole in the bell.
I wouldn't call this a groove though, so have no idea if it's what the Backun bells have.
dn
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: sfalexi
Date: 2011-03-22 21:17
Quote:
I don't know if I am right to conclude that the issue with stuffy bell note has no set solution, which leaves placement of tonehole, use of correction keys, or/and bell compensation as equally valid approach.
I agree. Much like some people say you should experiment with turning the barrel/bell in 1/8 rotations to find the "optimum" spot, and marking the barrel and body to ensure it's placed the same way every time. Or people who feel that pulling a barrel out about the width of a dime may help. And others feel that spacers should be placed if pulling the barrel out to ensure a smoother bore throughout.
Mr. Ridenour suggests pulling the bell out a mm as a possible partial solution to the long B. He remarked that it worked a lot of times, however like ANY solution to a problem, it's often a "what works for you" type thing. I learned a long time ago that you can also open the throat A key while playing the long B to change it's color and projection. For some, a backun bell that has a voicing groove in it has been a solution they found that works well.
The Backun groove I would EXPECT to work VERY well with the clarinets he designed. If it DIDN'T work with the clarinets he designed, more than likely he wouldn't include grooved bell on his clarinets. But not all designs are the same, and a particular feature that may HELP one clarinet may NOT help another.
Alexi
US Army Japan Band
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
The Clarinet Pages
|
 |
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
