 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: 7magicmusic7
Date: 2011-03-18 15:49
Several months ago, I purchased an R13 and like the sound compared to the original plastic clarinet I have. BUT, I have had to take it in to get repaired...I don't know how many times, lost count. It has needed key pad adjustments, etc. Suddenly, just recently, it cracked! Its a pretty nasty crack so I am experimenting and playing a new, different R13 now. The thing is, in just a few days, this new R13 has several big key issues and needs to be repaired and lose rings. Is this normal? I think both clarinets sound decent (although I am sure there are better) its just they are not "solid" and put together. Thoughts?
I cannot decide whether to just make a trade for a new one or send the cracked one back to the manufacturer. Thank you in advance!
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Author: Franklin Liao
Date: 2011-03-18 16:07
I don't think you would mistreat your instrument by not maintaining it properly. To have this cracking is not in itself total suspect, but if the instrument is not abused, having need of adjustment in mere months is not a normal thing to have happened. To see another R13 to develop issues in the matter of a few days though is alarming.
Personally, I think that contacting Buffet support in person should be done, as well as do some documentation work on the state of the horn, before you make the action of trading in the instrument or RMA.
I think that a more detailed description of the symptoms, such as storage conditions, how the cracks are like and the nature of the faults on your instrument would be very helpful to tech in coming to some idea about what might have caused this.
Post Edited (2011-03-18 16:09)
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Author: Gandalfe
Date: 2011-03-18 22:06
A friend of mine purchased a Buffet R13, to replace her 20 year old one that was ruined by a cheap and ultimately horrible tech. The new instrument was horrible for her that eventually got taken to Morrie Backun in Vancouver. She also tried to return it, but the warrantly had expired. This was the principal clarinetist in our community band and a close friend of ours. It drove her to retire.
I don't know if it is a one time thing, but I know that she was a very proficient clarinetist who had to keep borrowing my R13 for two seasons before she gave up on her own. You hear noise about Buffet's quality control being a problem from one person, and you naturally wonder if it the person or a one-off thing. Then you start to hear more from others and really start to wonder. I'm just glad my R13 is in great condition.
Jim and Suzy
Pacifica Big Band
Seattle, Washington
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Author: sbrodt54
Date: 2011-03-18 22:53
Over the past 50 years or so, the quality of Buffet clarinets has been on a roller coaster like any other manufacture, some years they are great and some years not. In the 90s I had to disassemble every R13 that came in and rebuild it because nothing worked well, the keys wouldn't move, the scale was horrible, half of the tone holes were undercut and the other half still had chaff at the bottom of the well.
Then on board came Francois Kloc who was placed in charge of quality control. I swear, over night the quality went straight up. I have never been a part of a better quality controlled Buffet product for so long as right now, the clarinets I get are all consistent and playable right out of the case. When a problem occurs (crack, tenons don't fit, minor leaks..) anything that I can't fix to the customers satisfaction is immediately taken care of with the help of Joe D'Ambrosio at Buffet USA.
I don't mean to be overly blunt but after reading your original post about the rings loose and a crack, plus numerous trips to get keys working it told a typical story. When you purchased your clarinet you were either never told how to take care of the clarinet or you didn't listen, plus after the first trip to the repair person, there should have been a discussion on WHY the keys don't work.
Loose rings are the first sign of a lack of humidity, that needs to be addressed immediately or 1. the keys won't operate correctly 2. without proper support at the joint ends there will certainly be a crack.
None of this is a sign that the clarinet was built poorly, it is a sign that it was too dry where you live and the clarinet needed much more moisture. On a separate posting Ed Palanker gave you perfect advice on getting more humidity into your clarinet with a dampit, use two if you need to! Orange peels will simply make your case smell like garbage.
Every instrument made from wood needs care, there have been numerous posts on this site from many professionals that know how to care for their clarinet, search it and other sites for more info.
Scott Brodt
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Author: Franklin Liao
Date: 2011-03-19 01:07
sbrodt54: but "in a matter of a few days" though is really... not likely for something like that to occur just out of the blue. If it were within the timeframe of 1 season or so then the instrument being too dry and beginning to fatigue would be very plausible. I can only see this happening if the instrument was given by the store to 7magicmusic7 in a precarious state (which would be inexcusable for a music store)
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Author: EEBaum
Date: 2011-03-19 02:23
Aside from the crack, if you have to take your instrument in to the tech really often, I'd at least try taking it to a different technician.
-Alex
www.mostlydifferent.com
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Author: Jack Kissinger
Date: 2011-03-19 05:09
You've mentioned problems with two Buffets and a Leblanc. Did you buy them all the same place? I'm wondering if conditions in the store might have been responsible for their drying out. I've seen instruments displayed in the open, outside their cases, in more than one music store that had old-fashioned radiators providing the heat in winter. Just a thought.
Best regards,
jnk
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Author: GLHopkins
Date: 2011-03-19 22:35
We're a Buffet dealer. Of the last 6 new R-13s I've checked over when they were un-boxed, ALL of them have had loose rings. In the last year MOST of the R-13s we've had come thru have had loose rings. It would be nice to just once feel confident that when you un-box a new pro clarinet from them there would no problems, but that isn't the case.
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Author: JJAlbrecht
Date: 2011-03-19 23:26
That's not good to hear. They really should be more careful about inspecting those instruments before shipping them to resellers. They should not be forsing folks like you to do their jobs, GLHopkins.
Jeff
“Everyone discovers their own way of destroying themselves, and some people choose the clarinet.” Kalman Opperman, 1919-2010
"A drummer is a musician's best friend."
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Author: alanporter
Date: 2011-03-20 00:59
From all the bad reports about Buffet that appear on this forum, I have the impression that Buffets are the worst clarinets on the market. I haven't noted any other company given such bad press. I would never buy one. Buffet buyers beware !
tiaroa@shaw.ca
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Author: JJAlbrecht
Date: 2011-03-20 01:57
Alan, Selmer was getting some bad comments a number of months back, too. I think these things run in cycles.
Jeff
“Everyone discovers their own way of destroying themselves, and some people choose the clarinet.” Kalman Opperman, 1919-2010
"A drummer is a musician's best friend."
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Author: Johnny Galaga
Date: 2011-03-20 02:44
My R13 that I got back in the late 90s is 15-20 cents flat on all the throat tones.
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Author: JJAlbrecht
Date: 2011-03-20 02:48
Have you tried different mouthpiece/barrel setups?
Jeff
“Everyone discovers their own way of destroying themselves, and some people choose the clarinet.” Kalman Opperman, 1919-2010
"A drummer is a musician's best friend."
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Author: Johnny Galaga
Date: 2011-03-20 02:54
But if you use a different barrel or mouthpiece, won't that affect the whole instrument? I wouldn't want the rest of the notes to go 20 cents sharper.
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Author: luckyclarinettoenla
Date: 2011-03-20 03:09
I purchased a new Buffet R-13 in October. I tried and tested numerous instruments and fell in love with my current clarinet. Within 3 days I was back in the shop to have the instrument adjusted and regulated. Two main issues were that many of the pads did not fully seal and some of the factory keywork was out of whack. I'm not a novice; care of an instrument is very important to me. Long story short, the dealer's techs were not up to the task and I ended up taking it to my technician and spent an additional $400.00 to have it outfitted to my specifications.
For now, I think it a very safe assumption that many, if not most clarinets will not play at an outstanding level immediately out of the box. Anticipating that you'll have to get it customized to your needs will save a lot of frustration and angst about having picked the wrong clarinet. Some will argue that perhaps the manufacturers should do perform better quality control checks and that the problems addressed above shouldn't happen. I fully agree. Having been in a similar situation though, I find that the ideal is far from the reality and that those who simply want to play should take the extra steps.
Never fool yourself into believing that today's 'good enough' will do tomorrow!
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Author: GLHopkins
Date: 2011-03-20 03:46
Buffet R-13 clarinets are great instruments. We sell no other pro clarinet because nobody wants anything else. The problems we encounter are loose rings, and pads that swell causing them to leak in the front. Re-leveling the pads is not a problem, but loose rings are. This problem should be addressed at Buffet BEFORE they are shipped out to the dealers.
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Author: jasperbay
Date: 2011-03-20 04:13
This really isn't brain surgery, folks.
If a pro clarinet has loose rings 'out of the box' there's a good chance it means the wood continued to shrink after final factory assembly. Blame ambient humidity levels if you want to, but I'd sooner suspect low-quality, low density, and/or improperly seasoned wood. Loose rings are a big contributor to 'cracks' when assembling the horn, especially with new, tight cork.
If you simply must have a new R-13, better get it from a dealer who stands behind the warrenty.
Clark G. Sherwood
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Author: Jack Kissinger
Date: 2011-03-20 04:33
A question for you dealers who have observed the aforementioned problems with Buffet instruments: What do the folks at Buffet, USA have to say when you have reported these problems to them?
Best regards,
jnk
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Author: sbrodt54
Date: 2011-03-20 18:55
"In a matter of a few days...""
Yes, in a matter on one day the wood has already started to shrink because of too little humidity. Long time seasoned wood is less susceptible but still shrinks/swells with the lack of or too much humidity.
I can stand with a customer on Monday and show him 5 clarinets all of which have tight rings. Tuesday I go out and by golly, one of them has loose rings. With a dampit in the case, the next day the rings are tight once more. Here in the winter the humidity drops horribly and I know that, I have 4 humidifiers running 24/7, it helps lot but still can't keep up 100%.
As soon as the summer months come all of those problem disappear and we go into "swelled" mode, clarinets where the joints won't go together. This is another problem to solve and I feel it's my job as the dealer to handle it, along with the loose ring syndrome.
>>>>>> What do the folks at Buffet, USA have to say when you have reported these problems to them?<<<<<<<
I usually talk to my salesman first (Chris Coppinger), then Joe D. in Florida. Their responses have always been the same..
"What can I do to help you and make our customer happy?"
Scott Brodt
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Author: mlz
Date: 2011-03-21 21:47
OOPs never mind, didn't see the other thread addressing this...
Post Edited (2011-03-21 21:50)
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Author: clarinetist04
Date: 2011-03-22 00:37
Very interesting. I went out to WWBW earlier this month and tested probably 20 instruments and I'd say more than half had rings that fell off as soon as I pulled the pieces out of the case. In all of them, they hadn't even been unwrapped yet so I am fairly confident they weren't being showcased outside of the case. WWBW has a pretty good reputation, as far as I can tell and in my experiences, for good quality storage and warranty. On the instrument I bought, so far so good, but it's only been a matter of weeks. But I'd love to hear what Buffet has to say about these types of issues, particularly rings that don't fit or poor keywork. I tried an A that had a metallic buzz through the whole throat tone and clarion register(s). I thought maybe it was me so I changed to a different mouthpiece and still the same. I took my original setup and switched horns, no problem. I don't know how they can send instruments like this out of their factory but I know it's not just them, it's all the manufacturers - different quirks in different ways and different problems.
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Author: RAB
Date: 2011-03-23 13:21
The humidity issue is the most common problem I see concerning clarinets. Not just Buffets but many new instruments.
Also other instruments in everyday use have problems, especially those that are kept in places that use steam heat which dry out the air.
The instruments are made in France. shipped to the USA by plane or ship, then in the case of Buffet stored in Jacksonville FL and the sent out by a shipping service. Needless to say the humidity changes drastically several times. A clarinet that was "perfect" in France might change drastically by the time it is sent out.
This humidity change will cause the pads to swell and then shrink, the wood does the same and a lot of issues result from that.
I think the instrument need to stabilize then be regulated.
My suggestion is to use dampits or some other device to add humidity to the instrument. I use a gauge to monitor the humidity level. We, Muncy Winds Music, store the clarinets in a controlled humidity room for several weeks, hopefully months before we regulate them and send them out. Even then when they are shipped some movement of the wood or pads sometimes occur due to the humidity changes.
There are many different opinions out there about this issue. I just hope this might be helpful.
Thanks
Rodney Berry
Repair Dept
Muncy Winds Music Company
Boone, N.C.
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Author: BartHx
Date: 2011-03-23 15:50
The quality discussions recently have centered on Buffets. My guess is that the only thing the quality problems have to do with Buffet is that they are currently the most popular instrument. Everyone draws from the same supplies. If we can't allow the trees to grow slowly and we don't have time to adequately age the wood, there will be problems with the wood. As pointed out, above, the instruments go through many humidity and temperature changes between the factory and the consumer. At this point, I am surprised that there are not more problems. If everyone suddenly decided that a particular Selmer model was THE instrument to have, I have no doubt that we would be seeing the same posts about Selmer. My feeling is that, if you need to buy a clarinet new, you should plan on letting it rest in your own environment for a few months before you have to start using it. Control the humidity and temperature so that there are no significant swings. Then have it checked and regulated before you start using it. If you are going to put out the bucks to get it new, why not bite the bullet and do what is necessary to keep it that way.
Personally, although I perform regularly, I am not using my clarinet to make my living. That being the case, I am happy with an older instrument. I use older Selmers which I completely overhaul and regulate when I get them. They were all the top of the Selmer line when they were made, but the newest ones are from the Series 10 line. I have quite a collection now, since my hobby is restoring Selmers from Series 10 on back as far as I can get my hands on.
The world population has nearly tripled since I started playing, so I assume the number of clarinet players has increased in a similar manner. On the other hand, the amount of truly top quality wood (compared to the rate at which we use it) is essentially finite.
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Author: Francois Kloc
Date: 2011-03-25 20:45
Good afternoon,
I will make sure to have a talk with my staff about these issues. However, I have not been made aware of us having more problems than before lately.
The quality of our instruments has always and will always be a priority for me. As we are dealing with a natural material such as wood we encouter different types of "issue" along the road. This being said we are always working on finding ways to improve our processes without affecting the accoustical properties of the wood.
Never the less, as I said I will talk next week about this and make sure this is checked.
Have a good week end,
Best Regards,
Francois Kloc
President & CEO
Buffet Crampon USA, Inc.
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Author: Claire Annette
Date: 2011-03-26 16:41
Great thread!
I purchased my R13 in 1979. Three years ago, I ask Rob at Muncy Winds to assess my clarinet to determine if it was worth overhauling. His work gave my horn a new life. I've been playing with a pinned crack since 1985 and my clarinet is still going. Soon, I feel I will need a new clarinet and "retire" this one...but am considering what brand is showing consiand will fit the bill. VERY interesting discussion, here.
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