 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: John gibson
Date: 2001-01-12 17:14
Are there any advantages to having metal tenon rings put on my R-13?
Also, I am looking at a backup horn. A selmer from the 40s. Has an extra ring on the upper joint and an addition pad at the top of the lower joint which covers a hole that goes through the joint AND the tenon below. What is that about and does this extra keywork present any particular repair or servicing problems? Horn is on consignment and looks to be in really good shape. Store tech says it really doesn't need anything. Price is $700. Fair or not? Thanks.
John
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Author: Dee
Date: 2001-01-12 18:01
The third ring on the upper joint is the "forked Eb/Bb" mechanism. It lets you trill easily and clearly between Ab and Bb in the clarion register (Db and Eb in the chalumeau). On a standard clarinet (i.e. without this), one must choose between awkward, hard to coordinate fingerings or use a fingering that results in a poor sound on the upper note. I don't know if the forked Eb/Bb has any disadvantages or not.
The other mechanism you describe sounds like the articulated G#. It facilitates trills from F# to G# in the clarion register (and the corresponding trill in the chalumeau register). It may also give a nicer sounding clarion G# and chalumeau C#. This has at least one significant disadvantage. The "long F" fingering for the altissimo can not be used. This long F is often the nicest sound, most in-tune way to play the altissimo F on many clarinets. It also speaks quite easily. On a sustained note, this is often the best choice for that note. Of course in fast passages, it would seldom be used.
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Author: drew
Date: 2001-01-12 18:13
I believe what you are asking about are tenon caps, since just about all clarinets have rings to support the tenons. Tenon caps provide additional protection/reinforcement to the tenon in the event the instrument is dropped or is subjected to mechanical stress.
My personal view is that there is nothing detrimental about adding tenon caps, but there is not much advantage either. I'd much prefer to put resources ($) towards projects like refacing the mouthpiece, replacing pads on the upper joint with cork pads, replacing the barrel, and other customizations. Or lessons and music!
Reference the Selmer backup horn, price is a very relative thing. To me, $700 sounds pricy, but could be justifiable if the instrument was all original and was in top condition. Regarding the extra keywork, some professionals (David Pino comes to mind) do not recommend anything other that the stand Boehm 17 key/6 ring configuration. From another perspective, do you want your backup horn to be similar or different to your R13? Selmer's from the 40's are large bore instruments with straight toneholes. R13's are small bore instruments with fraised (undercut) toneholes. My advise is to try out the Selmer and see how you like it. If you really like it, buy it (you probably have some room to dicker on the price).
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Author: larryb
Date: 2001-01-12 18:49
Another consideration for the ol' Selmer (implied by drew's comment about bore size): make sure that the mouthpiece/reed that you are comfortable playing with the R13 is equally comfortable, flexible, etc. on the Selmer.
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Author: William
Date: 2001-01-12 21:06
Your "backup" clarinet should have the same key mechanism as you mainline instrument to facilitae alternating between the two. Also, the difference in bore sizes could make your R-13 mp/reed setup unusable on the Selmer. $700.00 sounds reasonalbe if the instrument is in good and playalble condition. Good luck.
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Author: mw
Date: 2001-01-12 21:56
.... Tenon caps can help with WOBBLE that may be associated with a rounded, worn tenon. Thats not their only purpose, but if you got some wobble, its a decent solution. mw
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Author: Willie
Date: 2001-01-13 01:53
You described a pad that covers a hole that goes through the socket and the tenon below. This sounds like the centered C# key in the middle of some horns. By moving this port below the C port in lieu of the standard offset to the side position, its supposed to give a more in tune C#. The drawback is a weak and sometimes hard to seal tenon. With modern undercutting this may not be needed on some horns anymore, but I think they still make them on some of the pro horns.
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Author: mw
Date: 2001-01-13 21:02
Willie, I can't speak for the fact that the extra hole does/doesn't contribute to wobble.
In the horns that I have seen & examined, the WOBBLE was caused by a worn (rounded) male in the connection (which doesn't limit other possible causes). Alos, I experienced this problem with OLDER horns. Therefore, it occurred to me that the observed "wear", which manifested itself in rounding of the tenon, may have been caused by "use & age".
However, it could have been caused by careless disregard for assembling of the (particular) clarinet itself --- & age may not have been be so much a factor to that end --- how long would it take to round (wear) a tenon with daily forcing in a manner which promotes such wear?
Just some random thoughts on WOBBLE ... we haven't discussed this before. Would, like to hear more on this subject.
mw
((Maybe when John Butler teaches that week long training course he will show us how to install a tenon cap!))
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Author: Eoin McAuley
Date: 2001-01-13 22:46
The main reason for tenon caps (sometimes called tenon rings) is to prevent moisture getting into the end grain of the wood, which is exposed at the ends of the tenons. Particularly in a brand new clarinet, these absorb moisture much easier than the rest of the wood and cause it to swell, which might contribute to a stuck joint or a crack.
I don't think that there is much reason to add them to an old horn. If it has survived this long without cracking, it should continue to do so with normal care and attention.
You can achieve the same effect as a tenon cap by applying a layer of cork grease to the end of the tenon.
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Author: Dee
Date: 2001-01-14 02:03
Eoin,
Tenon caps and tenon rings are NOT the same thing and the terms should not be mixed up. Tenon caps are put on the male portion of the joint while tenon rings go on the outside of the female portion of the joint. Even though people do get the terms mixed up, it behooves us more experienced clarinettists to help keep it straight.
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2001-01-14 13:47
It would be more explicit to call the rings 'tenon SOCKET rings' The socket is not a tenon!
I have corrected dozens of wobbly tenons by fitting caps - often at both ends of the cork, and I doubt that one can sensibly call the one at the other end of the cork a 'cap' rather than a ring.
I have also worked on many clarinets with the articulated G#. In my experience these models have never had a wobbly centre tenon. This is probably because they must be very carefully made, and because they are considerably longer than the standard tenons. There is no problem with the sealing of these tenons if the corking job is well done.
Re your original question, an articulated G# etc mechanism involves a somewhat precarious and delicate mechanism which can add significantly to servicing and adjustment times. Many repair techs would probably do more harm than good to it.
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