 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: raddatcj
Date: 2011-03-09 05:46
This is a wonderful master class.
http://www.pickstaiger.org/video/clarinet-master-class-john-yeh
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2011-03-09 10:56
"I love that. I just throw that out there for your consideration, particularly because Mozart wrote it that way."
John was always a subtle teacher.
........................Paul Aviles
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2011-03-09 16:28
Thank you both for these WONDERFUL resources!!!
........................Paul Aviles
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Author: Liquorice
Date: 2011-03-09 21:25
Which piece is the first student playing in the Mark Nuccio masterclass?
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Author: LarryBocaner ★2017
Date: 2011-03-09 22:20
Sonatine (for clarinet solo) by Miklos Rozsa -- more famous for Hollywood movie scores.
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Author: clarinetist04
Date: 2011-03-09 22:22
She said he was playing the Miklos Rozsa Sonatina. (...I listened to a few minutes of it...) That is indeed what he played.
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Author: Arnoldstang
Date: 2011-03-10 17:48
I like John Bruce Yeh's ideas alot but.......from my perspective (armchair expert) I note that in the phrasing I would think the stress points could almost be deleted entirely to give a much smoother phrasing.
Some time ago I suggested regarding a Rose study that there be a destination point in the phrases. I thought this would be a pretty safe recommendation. Tony Pay in fact disagreed...."I wouldn't". I think in this masterclass his stress points are exaggerated when he sings them. The phrases can just "retreat" or just flow and then ebb in a less pointed fashion.
My other observation is that when we play alone there is a tendency to just play softer. Much of the "ballooning" that occured might have been avoided by playing in a less reserved fashion. It just seems the listening is all too "close up" and highlights any small imperfections. To me just playing "out" .....projecting the sound way beyond the front row would make it more natural for the player . To me all the playing seems too careful. I am only throwing these observations out for discussion. Mr Yeh is a great player and it is evident with every note he plays.
Freelance woodwind performer
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Author: Sam S
Date: 2011-03-11 22:17
If the first movement of the Mozart Concerto has an F natural in the sixteenth note runs, is it also supposed to have a Bb instead of a B natural later in the movement where it runs the same part in a different key?
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Author: Tobin
Date: 2011-03-11 23:35
Not in the Baerenreiter edition.
James
Gnothi Seauton
Post Edited (2011-03-11 23:43)
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Author: Tobin
Date: 2011-03-11 23:51
Hi Arnoldstang,
Every one of the stress points that Yeh uses essentially phrases across a bar line to the downbeat of the next measure. Although Tony Pay may not like the idea of a single point (note or beat) being a goal, these notes in the music are reinforced with the strongest beat the measure contains...they do, in a way, feel like goal points. Yeh definitely sings the phrase more emphatically then I recall him playing the phrases.
As for the performers of that masterclass -- they were in another place being "skyped" in, weren't they? Yeh mentions the technology perhaps being a cause of exaggerating the ballooning, and clearly they can't be well heard in the recording. I don't disagree with your thoughts on how "playing out" might solve this problem, I just think that the individuals may have been playing out in the first place...from wherever they were.
James
Gnothi Seauton
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Author: brycon
Date: 2011-03-12 04:01
Sam,
Check a score. I remember Bb working with the chord and B natural not so much.
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Author: Bob Phillips
Date: 2011-03-12 04:06
They Yeh class reminds me a lot of my recent lessons; so I'm very impressed with a lot of things.
One is that the first of Yeh's students (I have yet to take the time to continue --or to turn the page to the other master classes), seems spectacularly good at doing what Yeh suggests. Good job.
Another is to learn the depth of detail you/these "real" musicians work in.
I'll never be happy about "just getting all the notes" again.
Bob Phillips
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Author: mrn
Date: 2011-03-17 19:45
Quote:
Every one of the stress points that Yeh uses essentially phrases across a bar line to the downbeat of the next measure. Although Tony Pay may not like the idea of a single point (note or beat) being a goal, these notes in the music are reinforced with the strongest beat the measure contains...they do, in a way, feel like goal points.
I've just looked through about the first couple of minutes of this video so far, but at least in the part I've viewed I don't see a contradiction between Yeh's remarks and the point Tony was making in that previous thread.
Tony's point was that a classical phrase should BEGIN strongly and then taper off (i.e., that there is no "local crescendo" in the classical style). Thus, a classical phrase doesn't build up to a *goal* (a strong point at the END of a phrase). Rather, it BEGINS strongly and "winds down."
Yeh cautions against "ballooning" (having the phrase initially grow in intensity--a local crescendo of sorts) and when he sings the opening bars of Mozart, you can hear that his phrases start strongly and taper off, just as Tony said a classical phrase should.
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Author: Tony Pay ★2017
Date: 2011-03-18 22:13
Mike wrote:
>> Tony's point was that a classical phrase should BEGIN strongly and then taper off (i.e., that there is no "local crescendo" in the classical style). Thus, a classical phrase doesn't build up to a *goal* (a strong point at the END of a phrase). Rather, it BEGINS strongly and "winds down.">>
Thanks, Mike. However, though what you write is true, I think I'd rather say:
Tony's point was that a classical phrase should BEGIN more or less strongly and then taper off (i.e., that there is no "local crescendo" in the classical style). Thus, a classical phrase doesn't build up to a *goal* (a strong point at the END of a phrase). Rather, it BEGINS more or less strongly and then 'winds down', more or less.
The thing about the 'more or less' is that it suggests both that the phrase beginnings:
(a) aren't necessarily very definite, and
(b) can, and should, be varied.
There is a great deal of discussion of this subtle point in, again:
http://www.woodwind.org/clarinet/Study/Phrasing.html
Tony
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Author: Liquorice
Date: 2011-03-18 23:50
mrn- I'm not sure if I agree. I do hear a few contradictions between Yeh's masterclass and what I understand to be Tony's view on classical phrasing:
1. Yeh clearly sings the opening motive of the clarinet concerto with a crescendo on the E leading to his "high point" A of the phrase in the second bar of the theme. This is a local crescendo building to a goal on the second bar.
2. The "ballooning" which he is referring to isn't about making a local crescendo over a group of notes. His concept of "ballooning" is actually something similar to the messa di voce- i.e. a growing intensity and release on a single note. It was accepted (even desirable) for singers from Baroque opera right into the bel canto operas. While it may not be desirable on each of the first few notes of the opening theme of the Mozart concerto, I do think that it also has its place in the piece. I think it's interesting to have many different kinds of attacks, and Yeh's "ballooning" could be likened to a long, expressive accent. This still gives the beginning of the phrase a clear start, but steers away from a monotonous approach of clearly punctuated attacks on every single note.
On another topic: Yeh highly praised the first student's Tosca excerpt. Personally I didn't agree with his approach. The 16th A leading to the downbeat D was always quite fast, rhythmic and "choppy". It reminded me more of a tango rhythm than the dreamlike reminiscence which occurs at that point in the plot of the opera. Yeh tried to encourage the student to play more "vagamente", as it's written in the score, but the student didn't really change his approach at all. Even so, Yeh really seemed to like it, which I found rather puzzling.
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2011-03-19 03:43
My take on "ballooning" is that it distorts the whole idea of PHRASE. If you are connecting an idea over any length of time the notion that you can achieve that and have a series of cresc/diminuendos as building blocks is absurd.
.................Paul Aviles
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Author: Arnoldstang
Date: 2011-03-19 14:53
In response to James and 'playing out' I think that in order to create the different levels of dynamics that Bruce Yeh is suggesting it is very difficult given the disparity in the overall dynamics. ie the louds aren't loud enough to begin with. Given this the softer levels are just too difficult to manage successfully.
Freelance woodwind performer
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