 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: v12clarinet73
Date: 2011-02-26 23:10
I have recently switch to "tip to tip" tonguing at the suggestion of my teacher (I previously hit the roof of my mouth with my tongue). This aided in tonguing faster and lighter. I have also incresead my air support, something I had ignored for a long time. However, I now find new problems occurring that I don't remember happenning before. My throat bulges outwards while playing, especially while playing staccato, which I have always had trouble with (after my tongue leaves the reed, a "thwack" sound is audible. I believe it is caused by me doing something with my throat). I can't tell if my throat is too tense or too relaxed when playing, which might be the source of my problem. It could also be my tongue position, which I never quite grasped. Secondly, notes above F6 don't speak easily, if at all. When they do, they sound thin and usually like a tuned squeak. In addition, all altissimo notes below want to jump to the next partial. I have checked for leaks and found none. Again, it could be tongue position (I usually keep my tongue midway between the roof of my mouth and the bottom). Lastly, my staccato in the clarion never quite comes out properly; it sounds extremely heavy. I feel like there is too much resistance to play in this register. This only happens with staccato in the clarion, never in any other register; legato and slurs sound fine all around. Any suggestions for any of the above? Thanks for reading this (extremely long) post.
v12clarinet73
Buffet E11 (upgrading VERY soon)
Lomax L'Opera 01 Mouthpiece
Clark W. Fobes Barrel
Vandoren V12 4 1/2s and Clark W. Fobes Standard and Thick Cut 4 and 4 1/2s
Edited spelling/grammar errors.
Post Edited (2011-02-26 23:15)
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Author: PrincessJ
Date: 2011-02-27 00:42
Try blowing a solid, low, loud E (low register) and then lift the first finger on your right hand. If the tone is like a blown bottle, your throat is open and relaxed. If it's a loud squawk, your throat is closed and tense.
I'm very sorry that I can't give credit to whom posted this exercise but if I could I would and thanks to whomever that may be.
Also, stop biting so hard. That can cause massive issues. Many people tend to bite and or tense up in some way when learning staccato.
-Jenn
Circa 1940s Zebra Pan Am
1972 Noblet Paris 27
Leblanc Bliss 210
1928 Selmer Full Boehm in A
Amateur tech, amateur clarinetist, looking to learn!
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Author: kdk ★2017
Date: 2011-02-27 03:05
There's really so much going on in your description and so many things that could be causing the problems either alone or in combination. But you mention that you have a teacher - the one who suggested changing your articulation technique in the first place. What does (s)he have to say about all of this. A competent teacher listening first-hand to the sounds you're making would have by far the best chance at diagnosing what's wrong.
By the way, without knowing anything about the Lomax mouthpiece you're using, the reeds you're using on it seem maybe a little on the hard side for someone having so much difficulty with control of sound and response, especially if you aren't skilled at reed adjustment. That's something your teacher should judge as well.
Audible "thwack" sounds are often the result of slap tonguing - in fact producing that sound is the goal when a composer or arranger asks for slap-tongue. Ask your teacher about the noise. Usually it results from tonguing more toward the middle of the tongue and creating a hollow that forms a suction, which causes noise when you pull your tongue away.
Karl
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Author: crnichols
Date: 2011-02-27 14:14
Because of your transition to the correct method of articulation, you'll need to be patient and thoughtful in your practice. You do need to watch out for a few things, and it's crucial that you work with your teacher to get you on the right track.
In my experience, these symptoms are very common. The "thwack" sound may be caused by too much of your tongue spending too much time on the reed. Also, you may be tonguing too low on the reed. If you take the reed off of the mouthpiece and articulate, one of two sounds will result. Either a hollow sound, (this indicates you are too low) or a percussive sound (this indicates you are at the tip rail: this is the correct method). My favorite phrase is "minimal surface contact of the tongue on the reed."
Second, regarding the throat bulging. First, you need to work on making your tongue position stable when articulating. Throat movement indicates that too much of the tongue is moving. The back part of the tongue should be arched to accelerate the air. Only the front part of the tongue should be engaged in the articulation. This will help reduce (almost eliminate) the throat movement. To maintain an ideally, relaxed throat, think of the syllable "ha." Paired with the syllable "eee" for the tongue position, we have "heee."
Based on everything you described, this is my "diagnosis." Try some of this stuff and see if it helps, and keep us posted! Your teacher should also have great ideas about resolving these issues. It is difficult to address every aspect in one lesson, so the knowledge you seek may await you at your next lesson!
Christopher Nichols, D.M.A.
Assistant Professor of Clarinet
University of Delaware
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Author: Bob Phillips
Date: 2011-03-01 04:36
I, too have the "Swollen Neck" "problem."
My teacher and I were concerned until learning that air sacs in the neck communicate with the throat and can inflate while playing. Not a problem, just loosen your tie and wail away.
Bob Phillips
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2011-03-02 02:09
First you have to realize that there is no such thing as one way for everyone to tongue properly. I'll refer you to my articles on tonguing on my website to read more about what I have to say about it. Some people have larger or thicker tongues then others making it impossible to tongue properly the "right" way. Some people actually have too small a tongue. It could be thick in back or in front. Everyone's body parts are not the same size and that applies to the tongue as well. When I teach tonguing I experiment with different placements of the tongue until we find the position that works and sounds best for the student. Your tongue can be to high in front or in back, it might be to low in front or back, you might be choking off the air with the back of the tongue or in your throat when your tongue moves. There are so many possibilities that you have to experiment with as many combinations as possible. As much as I endorse an open throat one has to make slight changes in the throat and tongue position when you go into the higher register but you always have to keep the air flowing. Check my website, see if something clicks for you. ESP http://eddiesclarinet.com
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Author: TianL
Date: 2011-03-04 06:43
i had gone through the exactly same transition (from anchor tonguing to tip-tip tonguing) and these problems happened to me as well.
for the throat problem it's not too hard to fix, just think of raising your soft palate. that will keep your throat open. your tongue want to move forward because you are used to anchor tonguing where the tongue is more relaxed and forward. but now you want to draw your tongue more backward, you have to kind of remember to do this in the beginning, otherwise your tongue is too far out. raise the soft palate and draw your tongue back.
for the clarion register, man there is not much you can do about this.. just gotta practice practice practice. once you get it, you will get it. i can do staccato pretty well but the beginning of my clarion tonguing is not clean enough, so i asked my teacher, he gave me a whole bunch of suggestions, but said in the end, "the articulation is like a life-time thing, it can always get better!"
when i had gone through this transition, it really felt hopeless. but you just gotta stick to it, and soon it will feel very natural. once you are there, you will be glad that you made the effort.
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Author: v12clarinet73
Date: 2011-03-09 23:31
Thank you all for your advice. Unfortunately, my teacher is suffering from a sudden bout of the flu and had to cancel my next few lessons. However, I e-mailed her with my questions, hoping she could shed some light on the situation. That being said, I have had some time to try this advice.
PrincessJ: Thanks for the excersise! As I lifted my finger, a squawk sounded. It only happened at forte and louder; softer than that was not a problem, so I am working to fix that. I am still trying not to bite when playing piano.
kdk: The reeds I currently use are slightly hard before I break them in, but afterwards, they feel fine. The mouthpiece tip is very closed and has a very long facing. I do use the ATG system with moderate success, but I have found that if I take too much cane from the tip, the sound becomes thin and I cannot play in the altissimo at all. My teacher has been helping me with this.
crnichols: Thanks for the descriptions. I have been working on them. I feel as though my tongue does spend quite a bit of time on the reed. I have always been confused by staccato. Should the air stop in between notes or should my tongue simply stop the reed from vibrating? Regarding the throat, I have been trying not to move my tongue as much. I will continue working and keep you posted.
Mr. Palanker: Thank you for your comment. I have visited your website frequently since I became a member of this site. That being said, I would like to thank you for all the helpful information I found on your website. It has been very helpful. I do feel as though my tongue is too big, as when I try to raise it, it stops the air entirely. As usual, I will keep trying to find alternatives.
TianL: I tried raising my soft palate and the problem seemed to get better. I will continue using this idea to try to implement it into my playing all the time.
Thank you to everybody for their help and comments!
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Author: crnichols
Date: 2011-03-10 00:05
I just noticed your post, and thought I should reply to your question.
Constant air is the MOST important thing about articulation (actually, this is among the most important concepts of wind playing). The air should not stop. The most basic function of the tongue in single reed playing is to either prevent or allow the reed to vibrate.
If you were to start a note and then stop it with your tongue (try "deet"), you should still be able to feel pressurized air behind your top front teeth. While your tongue is on the reed, you can relax the corners of your embouchure to see if air leaks out as a test.
Christopher Nichols, D.M.A.
Assistant Professor of Clarinet
University of Delaware
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