 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: clarimad
Date: 2011-02-22 18:58
I need to source the Bb/Eb trill key to fit a 1951 Bb Regent and the Bb side trill key for a 1975 Edgware.
To simplify matters the Bb/Eb Regent key is on the top joint and nearest the bottom section; the Edgware Bb trill key is the second in the trill key cluster.
Hoping you guys can assist.
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2011-02-22 19:08
I think I may have come up (not entirely myself) with a method of repairing mazak (cast) keys. It requires a precision drill, however.
If anyone's interested I'll dig out some sketches.
--
Ben
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2011-02-22 19:21
Sir Ben, if your solution involves, say, drilling and installing pins in the Mazak, please permit me to save you some pain by suggesting that you table the idea.
I had some automobile outside mirrors (original equipment on my 1977 Lancia) made of this horrid metal, and of course they snapped, and every attempt I made to repair them was unsuccessful. I tried silver-soldering, epoxy-bonding, and drilling/tapping/pinning. Drilling the metal caused it to simply crumble (imagine, for example, drilling into a buttermilk biscuit or a chocolate cupcake, and you'll get the idea).
I realize that it's TOTALLY out of character for me to be negative about anything ![[grin]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/smilie5.gif) , but I wouldn't want anyone to waste valuable time chasing red herrings or tilting at windmills (or any other quasi-literary phrases that come to mind).
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2011-02-22 19:50
Attachment: KeyRepair1.jpg (28k)
Attachment: KeyRepair2.jpg (29k)
David,
thanks for the dire warning. I thought with a bit of careful pinning (and carefully listening to your dental repair person while working on your crumbling molars) might do the trick.
Picture 1 shows the key after I got it (and unsuccessfully baked on it with my torch), but you can still see the metal strip that was inserted into a sawed-in slot on both sides. Worked well until I got after it.
Picture 2 shows the rough idea with a metal pin epoxied in.
But as you say (and who am I to dispute your findings), it's a bit of a gamble.
--
Ben
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Author: Caroline Smale
Date: 2011-02-22 21:37
I'm pretty sure I have a spare B&H Bb trill key in my spares but the side Eb/Bb keys are like hens teeth (they are always the first to get bent and with Mazac Bent = broke) and so most B&H spares for this were used up years ago.
Virtually all B&H keys are similar between models Regent/Edgeware/Emperor etc so finding a scrap instrument may be best option for the Bb/Eb key.
Have made one in the past but hugely time consuming.
Let me have contact details if interested in trill key.
You could try Windcraft (Dawkes) it's just possible they may have found one or two Bb/Eb keys in recent years.
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Author: SteveG_CT
Date: 2011-02-23 04:10
In my experience the best way of "fixing" a broken zinc/Zamak/mazak/pot metal part is to glue it back together so that it can be used to make a mold for casting a replacement part. I've done this with car parts a few times with good results.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2011-02-23 05:46
Just out of interest, what are the serial numbers (just the first three digits) of these clarinets?
There are a lot of discrepencies in several B&H serial number lists found online, so use this list as it's the most accurate: http://www.clarinetperfection.com/clsnBH.htm
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
Post Edited (2011-02-23 05:46)
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2011-02-23 07:53
They're both from the '50s - the Edgware will have nickle silver keys but of the earlier design with the cut-outs on the side keys for the springs, the smooth LH F/C lever touchpiece and two trill guides (to name a few keywork differences compared to the instruments from the '60s onwards).
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2011-02-23 08:53
Ben, I think the idea has some potentional... though I have no exprience drilling in mazak keys so maybe it just can't work. For a key like in your photo I'd probably want to use two pins, which might be (borderline) possible.
With pins like these, it might be better (or even necessary) to also drill vent hole from the end of the pin holes to the sides, to make sure the entire hole is filled with glue without air pockets.
Other things to consider: The pins and (strong) epoxy solution is probably good enough for the force this key takes, mostly force of the spring against the glued joint and possibly some when springs back to close. But accidently bumping the key, even against your hand, is more likely to break it. Putting force to the side of the key, which can happen while playing, is more likely to break the glue. Some bumps even inside the case (especially if it's a lousy one) can break it. Another question is whether it's worth the effort for the instrument, especially if you are not doing it yourself and need to pay a repairer to do this. I doubt it would be guaranteed.
In spite of all that, and if it's possible to drill to this material, it might be worth considering.
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2011-02-23 13:43
All I can say is, try a 'test drilling' into an innocuous (non stres--bearing) area of one of the Mazak keys, and see what happens. Like any alloy, there are varying compositions, and maybe you'll get lucky and be able to drill (and better yet, tap) the stuff. I'd suggest you have a Plan B, though....
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2011-02-23 17:29
Here's a thought: B&H clarinets of just about every model except the 1010 and 926 are available every day for practically pennies on The Infernal Internet Auction Site Whose Name Shall Not Be Mentioned (TIIASWNSNBM). Why not just buy one one of the bloody things to scavenge for the spare parts you need?
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Author: Ian White
Date: 2011-02-23 18:52
I almost certainly have the Bb trill key but probably not the Eb/Bb.
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