 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: grifffinity
Date: 2011-02-22 21:00
This is a puzzler for all you techies on the board.
I've had this 1955 R-13 A for about 7 years. When I first purchased it, it played great - fantastic tone, response, intonation. Just an amazing horn. At the time I was playing chamber music, but our group fell apart within a year - and I stopped using the horn until last spring when I started playing with a local orchestra. So it was dormant for about 4 years or so.
Since bringing the horn back out, it hasn't played quite the same way I remember. It's been to two techs who swear up and down it doesn't have leaks. I've done the suction test and it seals. Yet, when I play I'm experiencing extreme resistance once I get to G5 - B5 - to the point where I'm in the middle of playing a phrase and the note just stops - either in a scale passage or a leap up. This only happens playing on this horn...regardless of mouthpiece or barrel used. Sometimes a softer reed helps alleviate the problem...but it's still a major issue.
Any ideas on what might be causing this issue? I do feel a slight stuffiness in the corresponding lower 12ths C4-E4...but again, nothing is leaking that I can find. Is this possibly a bore issue? Maybe an alignment issue when the two joints connect?
Many thanks.
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Author: johng ★2017
Date: 2011-02-22 21:24
have you checked the tone holes, especially the register key tube? Stuff gets in them and can really change how the horn plays. Just one thing for you to check on.
John Gibson, Founder of JB Linear Music, www.music4woodwinds.com
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Author: sonicbang
Date: 2011-02-22 21:30
I had same experiences with long time out of use clarinets. If your horn has no leaks and the wood is not warped you should oil the bore for 3 days (but let it dry out for 3-4 days before doing it. I use high quality liquid paraffine) and play many forte long tones (chromatic or octave), at least 20 minutes per day. The oil softens the wood for a while. The horn will have significantly less resistance within in 2-3 months. It works well for me.
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2011-02-23 09:12
It might still have normal leaks (or a leak), even if some repairers say it's fine and suction test feel fine. Maybe not likely, but possible.
It might be an intermittent leak. This is a leak that happens only sometimes.
For example I recently saw a clarinet where a trill key touchpiece hit the one next to it, but it was so borderline that it actually didn't happen most of the time, only once in a while the clarinet suddenly stopped playing.
Another example I once had on my own clarinet was the linkage from thumb ring key to first finger ring key was hitting a trill key, causing it to open slightly. Maybe a pad stitting so long had a deeper seat now allowing the mech under to raise.
If the clarinet sometimes suddenly just stops, an intermittent leak like this is a likely reason. Depending on the exact size and location of a leak, it's entirely possible (likely even) to affect the highter register much more than the lower, and sometimes just stop certain notes but not others. If it's something caused by your fingers, it explains why it is better or worse sometimes.
Another possiblity is that you don't remember the clarinet the way it really was. Maybe you are much better now, and never noticed the problem years ago. Or any problem that has more to do the player than the instrument. An even less likely reasons is that maybe the mouthpieces you tried were a bad match for this instrument. Worth considering everything I guess.
It could be tone hole bird nests. This usually happen for top tone holes, a round 'nest' build up at the bottom of the chimney essentially making the tone hole smaller. Though this is usually felt at the lower register too, and unlikely to vary in response (i.e. sometimes just stuffy, sometimes a note doesn't come out etc.).
It's hard to say anything certain without checking the instrument but I hope it gives you some ideas on what else you can check.
Post Edited (2011-02-23 09:29)
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Author: kdk ★2017
Date: 2011-02-23 09:47
My first thought is that something about the left hand key layout has become awkward for you and you're bumping into something and opening a key somewhere near the top of the instrument. The throat A or G# keys would be my first suspicion. Or a weak spring on either could be allowing a slight leak. The standard suction-type leak tests won't detect a leak caused by a weak spring - the suction is pulling the pad shut.
Karl
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Author: grifffinity
Date: 2011-02-23 19:47
Thank you all for your comments.
Quote:
The throat A or G# keys would be my first suspicion
Actually, when I first brought the horn to my regular tech, he noted that the screw was over tightened...we loosened it and it seemed to help initially. It one of the first things I check now when the problem comes up.
Quote:
Another example I once had on my own clarinet was the linkage from thumb ring key to first finger ring key was hitting a trill key, causing it to open slightly. Maybe a pad stitting so long had a deeper seat now allowing the mech under to raise.
This could be possible - I had a student with the problem of hitting her forefinger on the throat G# key...and what I'm getting is a similar result, although I don't know why if I'm not making huge movements of the hand - G5 will come out but G#5 wont in a chromatic passage. At rehearsal on Monday, G5 to B5 leap - G came out but B didn't...the problem is it's not always consistent although it's always within the range of G5 to B5, which I suppose makes it quite likely that it could be me...
Quote:
An even less likely reasons is that maybe the mouthpieces you tried were a bad match for this instrument. Worth considering everything I guess. I was using a different mouthpiece 5 years ago - a 5RV Lyre. I switched to Genussa since then - I own a vintage and a remake from Ben Redwine. It's possible that my current mpc does not work with the barrel on the A - something else to ponder.
Thanks all!
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2011-02-23 22:19
Besides, a suction test doesn't really work the way you want it - the harder you suck, the better it seals. Try a blow test which will reveal weak seals much better.
Another thing I recently fell upon was the linkage mechanism of one of my instruments. It's a full boehm instrument, and when I slightly twist the two joints, the bridge arm coming from the upper joint is touching one of the posts of the lower joint. It's not immediately apparent and will reveal itself only after some time. Short term solution was to use less grease (the socket is metal-clad) so that the two joints keep their relative position with each other. Long-term solution would be some alignment guide that prevents that behaviour.
Or a pad may swell due to condensation and stop other (linked) keys from working properly.
In a nutshell - there are static leaks, and there are dynamic leaks. (I prefer the former...)
--
Ben
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2011-02-24 06:31
I have a Genussa that is unplayable but it's not stuffy. Still maybe worth trying other mouthpieces, maybe Vandoren if you liked it so much in the past.
Quote:
This could be possible - I had a student with the problem of hitting her forefinger on the throat G# key...and what I'm getting is a similar result, although I don't know why if I'm not making huge movements of the hand - G5 will come out but G#5 wont in a chromatic passage. At rehearsal on Monday, G5 to B5 leap - G came out but B didn't...the problem is it's not always consistent although it's always within the range of G5 to B5, which I suppose makes it quite likely that it could be me...
Can you actually check on the instrument: Press the F# key (i.e. the upper joint first finger ring key) firmly. You will see its linkage on top of the thumb ring key, going under the trill keys. Can you see if this is hitting one of the trill keys? Buffets usually have a good design so this doesn't happen normally, but still possible, especially with the trill key pads "sinking" making the key lower, and possible the first ring key pad seating deeper for some reason too.
If something like this is the problem then what you describe is actually not strange. Some of those leaks, depending on size and location, can make exactly this effect. Almost no change in the lower register. Some change in the upper register and worst the higher you get in the clarion. When this happened to me, it was only A and above that seemed to be affected and B was by far the worst. So it being worse from G# and not G isn't that surprising, if that's really the problem. Also if B area is worse, also very possible.
Maybe this is not the problem at all, but easy to check on the clarinet.
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