 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: thinkingape
Date: 2011-02-14 21:31
Hello,
I wondered if some of you are able to give me some advice and offer your opinions. I have played the clarinet for a little while (a cheap, plastic instrument) and now have the opportunity to get a better one. I know that it would be best for me to go and play several instruments somewhere, but unfortunately I don't have that opportunity.
I have found some great deals on the net and I am a undecided between the following two instruments:
Yamaha YCL 650 (B flat)
Buffet E13 (B flat)
What are your thoughts/opinions on these two instruments/manufacturers? Would you prefer one over the other and if so, why?
I'd be really grateful for some help.
Best wishes,
Sonny
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Author: Bob Barnhart ★2017
Date: 2011-02-14 22:48
I tried a used Yamaha 650 once and although it needed a pad replaced, it played better than a lot of R13s I've played. It had a great sound, nice resistance, even scale and good response.
Given the mixed responses of many on this board to the E13, I would seriously recommend considering the Yamaha.
Good luck!
Bob Barnhart
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Author: DAVE
Date: 2011-02-15 02:50
The 650 is a GREAT horn... I would place it closer to an R13.
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Author: Ed
Date: 2011-02-15 02:55
If I had that choice, I think without question I would go with the Yamaha. They are well designed, nice and even and tune really well.
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Author: concertmaster3
Date: 2011-02-15 02:56
If my logic is correct...wouldn't the E11/13 be more along the lines of the YCL-450? The 650 is the entry level pro model right?
All in all...the Yamaha horns are great. I'm playing on CSV's right now and couldn't be happier.
Ron Ford
Woodwind Specialist
Performer/Teacher/Arranger
http://www.RonFordMusic.com
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2011-02-15 03:23
I've played 3 or 4 650s and I liked them all VERY much. The ONLY gripe I have is that it seemed very inflexible. Didn't seem easy for me to vary the tone a lot. It was a VERY nice tone, VERY well intune, but I couldn't change the sound which annoyed me a little.
If you're only considering those two, the 650 in my opinion is the winner by far.
Alexi
US Army Japan Band
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Author: thinkingape
Date: 2011-02-15 04:11
Wow, guys, thank you so much for your input. I really appreciate all the responses. You have made my life a whole lot easier. Considering that you are all pretty much in favour of the Yamaha I will certainly go for that one. To be honest, I am a little primed and was leaning towards the Yamaha anyway, but that is really only due to the fond memories I have of the Yamaha piano I had when I was younger.
Thanks again to all of you.
Sonny
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Author: TianL
Date: 2011-02-16 21:40
i once bought a yamaha YCL650 due to all the great reviews on it. but unfortunately for me the experience was the opposite. my 650 was very resistant and hard to play. i thought there might be some mechanical issues so i got it overhauled, and that didn't help. so i sold it and went back to buffet.
it could be just that one yamaha though.
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2011-02-17 04:05
I've tried several 650s and E13s. Occasionally there is one that is just not good, but this is pretty rare, especially with Yamaha.
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Author: thinkingape
Date: 2011-02-17 05:21
Well, I did find a shop near me that had both instruments in stock and allowed me to try them both out. In fact, they had two 650s, which I tried both to start with. Was I blown away! I have only been playing for two weeks (but I have some sax experience; so, I can play most of Grade 2 exam pieces (this applies to the UK)). I was so used to playing the cheap plastic instrument that I started on two weeks ago and to hear the tone the Yamaha produced was something else. Eventually I asked the shop assistance to get me the Buffet to try out and I was instantly disappointed. It had no warmth at all. It was really bright, although clear. Not that this is a bad thing, but for me, it just didn't compare. Thanks for all your advice on this.
Anyway, I have another question, being a totally novice: is it normal for the C sharp to sound a little breathy? When I play A then B flat and then C sharp (forte and legato) the C sharp sounds a little more breathy. However, when I hit the octave key and play the higher corresponding note to C sharp the breathiness disappears. I assume this is because I am still lacking the correct technique. Am I right, or does this sound odd?
Sonny
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2011-02-17 06:07
>> is it normal for the C sharp to sound a little breathy? When I play A then B flat and then C sharp (forte and legato) the C sharp sounds a little more breathy. However, when I hit the octave key and play the higher corresponding note to C sharp the breathiness disappears. <<
Assuming you are talking about C# below he staff, then yes, this is normal. On some better made models it is better than others, but almost always it is at least slightly different. But worth checking that the key opens enough. If not it exaggerates the problem. Also a too hard reed will add to the breathiness of the note. It should also improve some by practice (adding control to your mouthpiece/reed setup). If you are a beginner, if you haven't already, it's worth trying different mouthpieces and especially reeds (and reed strengths).
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Author: thinkingape
Date: 2011-02-17 08:48
Ahh, thanks clarnibass. That's a relief!
At the moment I am playing with the mouthpiece that came with the clarinet (Yamaha 650). I might just start a new thread to see what you guys think about the various mouthpieces on the market.
As for reeds. I normally play a 1.5 reed but I have also tried a 2.0, which I found a little tough (warm but harder to blow).
Sonny
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2011-02-17 10:44
thinkingape wrote:
> Ahh, thanks clarnibass. That's a relief!
>
> At the moment I am playing with the mouthpiece that came with
> the clarinet (Yamaha 650). I might just start a new thread to
> see what you guys think about the various mouthpieces on the
> market.
>
> As for reeds. I normally play a 1.5 reed but I have also tried
> a 2.0, which I found a little tough (warm but harder to blow).
>
> Sonny
Before starting another thread, do a search on "beginner mouthpieces". There's a TON of information on this board. My vote (cause it's the only one I tried) is for a Clark Fobes Debut. It was very playable and was a great mouthpiece for a budget buyer and to learn on. I haven't tried others advertised as beginner mouthpieces, but do a search and you'll have an idea of the different models available.
A good thing about some of these beginner mouthpieces, is that they don't break the bank. 30 - 40 dollars instead of 80+ for almost every other mouthpiece out there. And it'll last you a good while as you learn.
Alexi
US Army Japan Band
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Author: thinkingape
Date: 2011-02-17 13:10
You know, Alexi, I did wonder whether there was already threads on mouthpieces out there and hence haven't started one yet. I'll do a search...
I am not sure what to make of the idea of swapping mouthpieces from the yamaha's own yet. I assumed that the one the YCL 650 came with would be a pretty good mouthpiece. How would I know that swapping to another make would improve things? Unfortunately, the only shop I found nearby (where I bought the clarinet) won't let me try mouthpieces. And anyway, they only have Vandoren ones. I really don't mind spending money but I would have to be certain that any other mouthpiece I buy would change things for the better.
Sonny
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Author: Bob Phillips
Date: 2011-02-18 03:38
Try mouthpieces by mail order. Many dealers will sent you three at a time and refund your credit card commitment for the ones that don't grab you. You just need to avoid tooth and ligature scratches that would devalue the trial 'pieces.
Many mouthpieces are "designed" for a particular reed strength, so have a supply of different reeds on hand as well as a pair of matched ligatures so that you can have two (at least) mouthpieces set up for quick exchanges.
It is also a good idea to have a good listener, s/he will not be affected by the bone conduction that takes mouthpiece vibrations into your ears.
Look for intonation, responsiveness, and tone quality.
There is no reason to think that the provided mouthpiece is a good fit to you. It (and the barrel) is the transition between you and the horn. Yamaha no doubt picked a mouthpiece that works well on the bottom end, but they don't know you.
Bob Phillips
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Author: BassClarinetBaby
Date: 2011-02-18 05:39
When trying mouthpieces, I like to do so with a clarinet playing friend. You can play on it, and assess how it feels/sounds to you until the cows come home, but you'll never truly know how it sounds to an audience. Your friend can give feedback on how it sounds to them, and then play the mouthpiece for you to give you a first-hand experience of what others will hear of your playing.
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Author: mihalis
Date: 2011-02-18 06:15
BassClarinetBaby wrote:
> When trying mouthpieces, I like to do so with a clarinet
> playing friend. You can play on it, and assess how it
> feels/sounds to you until the cows come home, but you'll never
> truly know how it sounds to an audience. Your friend can give
> feedback on how it sounds to them, and then play the mouthpiece
> for you to give you a first-hand experience of what others will
> hear of your playing.
...or record yourself playing.
That way you will know how you really sound, and if it is your
preferred one.
And also. your friend will sound different if he plays your mouthpiece.
Mike.
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Author: thinkingape
Date: 2011-02-18 10:08
I think I'll try the mouthpieces when my clarinet teacher is around. He plays in an orchestra, so he has a pretty well-trained ear and he is good at explaining things to me.
One thing that I am not so clear about is in what why a mouthpiece changes the sound or play. I mean, what became very clear to me is that one clarinet can sound much warmer and richer than another one. This I experienced when playing both the Yamaha and Buffet. Does a mouthpiece further affect the tone, or is it more about playability? Are some mouthpieces easier to play than others and, for example, less prone to responding to bad posture with squeaks, or should I say more forgiving?
Sonny
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Author: concertmaster3
Date: 2011-02-18 13:23
Mouthpieces come in different shapes, sizes, and materials just like clarinets. (This also applies to reeds and barrels...) The closer the variable is to your body (the beginning of the sound) the more effect it will have over tone and response. The mouthpiece, reed and ligature combination, along with your embouchure setup, is what is going to define your unique sound. Using this combination on any clarinet will make you pretty much sound like yourself, with only minor changes due to the clarinet.
Most people here on the board will have you start out upgrading with the mouthpiece, and then the clarinet itself. You might want to talk with your teacher about getting a new mouthpiece first, and then the clarinet. (I learned this the hard way!)
Ron Ford
Woodwind Specialist
Performer/Teacher/Arranger
http://www.RonFordMusic.com
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Author: Bob Phillips
Date: 2011-02-18 15:56
One way to think about a single reed mouthpiece is that it converts the reed's "flapping" motion into the down/up the bore vibration of the aid column. What's common between the two is the air pressure.
The air pressure in the mouthpiece is distributed over the length of the reed window. The reed moves further and faster at the tip than at the table.
The mouthpiece's internal shape "couples" the reed's motion to the barrel and on to the tone-holes.
It affects the strength of the overtones, and hence the tone quality.
When you start a new note slurred or tongued, the mouthpiece is involved in getting the reed and air column to vibrate together, so it affects responsiveness.
It is commonly said that it is the player that determines the tone quality, and that changing equipment will only temporarily alter the sound. I say maybe/probably, but a simpatico mouthpiece makes all the difference in how the thing plays.
It (the choice of mouthpiece) is a personal thing.
Bob Phillips
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