 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2011-02-02 21:55
I saw a quote for a Sax Neckstrap that read "and the brass hook allows for more vibration in my sound".
That was quoted by a big name jazz band sax player.
Materials taken way too far...... That would be like a Clarinetist saying that their thumb rest absorbs vibrations, and affects the sound.
http://www.SkypeClarinetLessons.com
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Author: PrincessJ
Date: 2011-02-02 22:04
Anything for marketing.
Unless you had a special designed thumb rest that was shaped specifically to do just that, engineered by NASA, I wouldn't believe it.
Placebo effect. Powerful thing.
-Jenn
Circa 1940s Zebra Pan Am
1972 Noblet Paris 27
Leblanc Bliss 210
1928 Selmer Full Boehm in A
Amateur tech, amateur clarinetist, looking to learn!
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2011-02-02 23:21
Neither more nor less ridiculous than claims about different platings on ligatures or Hamilton plating on keywork affecting the sound of the instrument. It's like religion -- you either believe it or you don't.
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Author: ryanw
Date: 2011-02-03 03:04
I dont know how crazy that is. I know saxophonists at school that swear the sound is better with a metal hook as opposed to a rubber or plastic hook.
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Author: BrianChau
Date: 2011-02-03 03:10
Maybe I should start investing in some grenadilla reeds.
Brian Chau
University of British Columbia Concert Winds
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Author: NBeaty
Date: 2011-02-03 03:10
Material of a ligature can and does change the resultant sound. Naturally, it's not as dramatic as other changes in setup, but it is noticeable for sure. Gold plated v.s. silver bonades or BG traditional gold v.s. sliver offer noticeably different tones.
The neckstrap in the OP, yeah, that's ridiculous. That's definitely too far removed from the sound source or the instrument to be considered.
Some might take offense to the implication that only idiots would believe in a religion just the same as only idiots would believe this far-fetched market hype. Let's try to stay a little more respectful and civil.
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Author: concertmaster3
Date: 2011-02-03 04:02
I'm still not convinced about ligature plating....The solid material it is made out of, yes, I believe that does effect the sound, but not the plating put on it.
The neckstrap hook...wow...that's all I have to say...and I'm sure that many people went out and bought it just because of that statement!
Ron Ford
Woodwind Specialist
Performer/Teacher/Arranger
http://www.RonFordMusic.com
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2011-02-03 06:17
> Materials taken way too far...... That would be like a Clarinetist saying that
> their thumb rest absorbs vibrations, and affects the sound.
Actually it does. Not the thumb rest per se, but the cushion for sure. I sound like s*** without it. *)
In our own way, we're just as superstitious and credulous as in the dawn of mankind.
The only "material" "evidence" I'm willing to buy is that a player indeed sounds better because because he/she is more comfortable with certain gear and thus more relaxed and with more trust in the own skills. Call it a placebo effect, but interestingly enough placebos have been proven to be nearly as effective as certain "proper" medications.
--
Ben
*) maybe because my thumb starts hurting. ![[tongue]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/smilie6.gif)
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Author: sonicbang
Date: 2011-02-03 06:36
I finally came to an important decision. I will make a thumbrest from Twinkies to get a sweeter sound.
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Author: Bassie
Date: 2011-02-03 08:03
I bet that sax really does FEEL different to play with a brass hook. In that sense it might actually sound different in that the player might be playing it better.
Feedback to the player is as important as projection to the audience.
There is something important here we can easily overlook. My partner comes home from work a few weeks ago, says 'I have quotes for the same piece of equipment from two different suppliers. Similar prices. One however has shoddy build quality and the software is a nightmare. But because those things are subjective, I have to ignore them; I'm not allowed to mention them in the business case. How do I end up with the right machine?'
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Author: skygardener
Date: 2011-02-03 11:56
You think the hook is a claim of false advertising!?
I was walking down the street the other day, put a mint in my mouth, and not a single woman came up to me out of no where like in the commercials. What a rip off!!
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2011-02-03 13:12
The only reason I play saxes with a bronze hook is that it's a good design, very strong, easy to clip on and won't come off accidentally due to the spring-loaded flap thingy, plus the underside has been filed and burnished smooth so won't wear away at the sling ring on the instrument.
As for ligatures, well I don't use any ligatures on saxes other than the clamps Lawtons have fitted to them.
Btw - as for different materials making a huge difference, a plastic mouthpiece cap definitely makes a huge difference, so invest in one of them.
The differences being plastic ones are loads cheaper to buy (or could even be free!) and they don't make as much noise as metal ones when dropped on a hard floor.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: skennedy
Date: 2011-02-03 19:31
Old thumbs (at least 60 yrs) impart a mellowness to the tone of any instrument with the proper length of thumbnail.
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2011-02-03 19:36
Well I got a new adjustable thumb rest on my clarinet last month and wow, my sound is darker, more vibrant, bigger and much better in tune. It's fantastic. I can't wait to get a new mouthpiece cap.  ESP http://eddiesclarinet.com
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Author: PrincessJ
Date: 2011-02-03 19:45
To summarize the discussion;
Material makes a difference in certain things.
Material does not make a difference in a hook or thumb rest unless the musician is more comfortable using a certain material. A comfortable musician is usually a better sounding one.
For instance, a neck strap has no mechanical effect on the tone, but a neck strap that forces the musician to hold the instrument in an uncomfortable/unnatural position can effect the tone through the musician's struggle.
-Jenn
Circa 1940s Zebra Pan Am
1972 Noblet Paris 27
Leblanc Bliss 210
1928 Selmer Full Boehm in A
Amateur tech, amateur clarinetist, looking to learn!
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Author: BartHx
Date: 2011-02-03 19:45
Ed -- If you get a new, plastic mouthpiece cap it will reduce the clatter in your tone when it hits the floor. ;^)
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Author: skygardener
Date: 2011-02-04 15:14
Not false advertising, just an absurd belief.
Actually, it is no more absurd than thinking that a piece of metal that is less than 0.01% of the weight of the whole instrument will have any noticeable effect on tone.
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Author: GLHopkins
Date: 2011-02-04 15:30
If your sound is lacking in quality, no ligature is going to improve it. A good player makes a shoe string ligature sound wonderful....or rubber bands....or duct tape.....or whatever. Hacks sound like hacks no matter what equipment they use.
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Author: Tony Beck
Date: 2011-02-04 16:18
Hmmmmmm...... I have a block of titanium in the shop. I'll be it would make the perfect bass clarinet strap hook. The hexagonal close pack crystal structure has to be the key to it all.
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Author: Le9669
Date: 2011-02-04 20:04
The false advertising is causing people to become confident due to their reliance on good material. Aside from confidence, there is no improvement on their skill of the instrument per se.
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Author: clarinetguy ★2017
Date: 2011-02-04 23:09
This reminds me of a product that I used to see advertised in catalogs, and I think it was Rovner Mouthpiece Magic. I never tried it, and I don't think it's made any more. Did it work, or was it a lot of hype?
Post Edited (2011-02-04 23:11)
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Author: davetrow
Date: 2011-02-05 01:14
Considering the fundamental role of the right thumb in clarinet embouchure, I wouldn't be at all surprised if thumb rest material had an influence on one's sound, but it wouldn't be because of its acoustic qualities. I'm convinced that my Kooiman Maestro has improved my sound, if only because it removed the distracting pain in my thumb joint.
And don't knock the placebo effect. The whole point of it is that it works.
Dave Trowbridge
Boulder Creek, CA
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Author: ned
Date: 2011-02-05 05:39
NBeaty writes: ''The neckstrap in the OP, yeah, that's ridiculous. That's definitely too far removed from the sound source or the instrument to be considered.''
I don't know why you'd dismiss this claim, in light of the many other spurious claims put forward regarding the effectiveness or otherwise of that dizzying array of clarinet equipment and add-ons.
Consider this: the neckstrap is holding a heavy saxophone and is hanging from the neck of the player and will have a particular amount of tautness as a result. Is it then, not conceivable that certain vibrations could be transmitted from the instrument to the player? Pluck a guitar string, for example, to understand what I mean.
I personally don't believe it, but others may.
*********************************************************
clarinetguy writes: ''This reminds me of a product that I used to see advertised in catalogs, and I think it was Rovner Mouthpiece Magic. I never tried it, and I don't think it's made any more. Did it work, or was it a lot of hype?
What was it meant to do exactly?
My general feeling though, given a 30 year involvement in selling stuff, is that most things work adequately enough, a lot of things are marketing put-ons and maybe one half to one percent of new products actually offer something new and effective. This just an opinion, mind you.
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Author: justme
Date: 2011-02-05 06:10
Chris P said: "The differences being plastic ones are loads cheaper to buy (or could even be free!) and they don't make as much noise as metal ones when dropped on a hard floor."
Chris.....
The metal ones are best. The rounder and the more they bounce and roll the better!
Especially ones that have that loud ringing noise. These work best while dropped during a very quiet and sincere violin solo...
Just Me
"A critic is like a eunuch: he knows exactly how it ought to be done."
CLARINET, n.
An instrument of torture operated by a person with cotton in his ears. There are two instruments that are worse than a clarinet -- two clarinets
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Author: Mike Blinn
Date: 2011-02-05 13:00
Er, about the footpeg on my bass clarinet... does anyone know where I could purchase a top-shelf replacement?
I'm looking for one with interchangeable rubber tips suitable for different styles of music.
Price no object. The more the better, but should have a fancy name and designation.
Mike
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2011-02-05 13:23
Actually, I drilled a hole in a Super Ball and substituted it for the rubber tip.
Now I can play Follow the Bouncing Bass with no trouble. ![[hot]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/hot.gif)
Ken Shaw
Post Edited (2011-02-05 13:23)
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Author: clarinetguy ★2017
Date: 2011-02-05 13:35
Ned asked what Mouthpiece Magic was meant to do. I had to do a little digging, but here's Rovner's description of the product from about ten years ago. Some amazing claims are made, and perhaps it was an amazing product, but I honestly don't know since I never tried it. It would be interesting to know when and why it was discontinued.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Presto!
Improve your sound with Rovner's
Mouthpiece Magic
Are you a woodwind player interested in maximizing sound and performance?
Mouthpiece Magic applied to the facing of your mouthpiece means free reed vibration and a sweeter sound. Enjoy easier execution and better control of intonation in the high registers.
Mouthpiece Magic yields more playable reeds and can extend reed life. Application is simple. Just wipe onto the rails and facing of a clean mouthpiece with a soft cloth. It can also be applied to the inner surface of any ligature to enhance its performance.
Mouthpiece Magic dries instantaneously, is non-toxic when dry and is safe for the environment. Experience the Magic of Mouthpiece Magic. You'll love what you hear.
MOUTHPIECE MAGIC, 4oz. (113 grams) Can
(Sorry...not available for overseas shipping.) Price: $8.75
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Author: Tony F
Date: 2011-02-05 14:18
Hooks, ligatures and thumb-rests mase from demagnetized unobtainium should impart a bigger, mellower sound, with improved intonation. Curiously, unobtanium mouthpiece caps offer no improvement whatsoever, but do attract redheads.
Tony F.
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Author: justme
Date: 2011-02-05 15:01
Tony F said: " Curiously, unobtanium mouthpiece caps offer no improvement whatsoever, but do attract redheads.:
In Texas, solid gold mouthpieces will definitely attract blonds! ![[wink]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/smilie3.gif)
Just Me
"A critic is like a eunuch: he knows exactly how it ought to be done."
CLARINET, n.
An instrument of torture operated by a person with cotton in his ears. There are two instruments that are worse than a clarinet -- two clarinets
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Author: Clarinetcola
Date: 2011-02-06 04:02
They should offer silver and gold plated hooks along with the brass for optimal jazz, chamber and orchestral settings.
Nathan
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Author: DougR
Date: 2011-02-06 04:42
I'm actually much less dismissive of these kinds of claims than I used to be. (I actually saw the neckstrap ads in question, not too long ago, and first thought in my head was, hmmm--looks pretty cool, I might buy one! Forget claims about how it sounds!)
Really, though! The bronze hook attaches to the saxophone, but the cords run up to the neck strap, which sits on a bunch of layers of clothing, then tissue and bone, muscle and fat. (How much fat, you ask. Depends on the neck!) How much variability can there be from one strap to another, with all that tissue and clothing and stuff involved?!
But, Barry Green in The Inner Game of Music writes about his experiences in workshops he conducts, where he'll have a student who's working on a piece visualize his/her favorite player playing the same piece, play the movie of their favorite player playing the piece in their mind, and THEN playing the piece again. The second time is always light-years better, and full of new elements the student never thought about on their own. No change in equipment, no "magic reed," just the mind's eye.
Sometimes if you convince yourself you'll sound better with X or Y, you WILL sound better, whether the equipment is junk or not.
Randomized double-blind testing is the only way to "know" for sure, but even that would only tell part of the story...leaving aside the mind's role. (And it would sure take a lot of fun out of Gear Acquisition Syndrome!)
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