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 Jean Baptiste
Author: Pesty 
Date:   2010-12-27 15:11
Attachment:  Dec26_0001-1.jpg (4k)

I have a Clarinet the was left to me from my Aunt. On the Bell it reads Jean Baptiste BD of ED N.Y.C. 1964. Any idea what this means ?

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 Re: Jean Baptiste
Author: GBK 
Date:   2010-12-27 15:50

At one time it was the property of the NYC schools.

BD of ED = Board of Education (or Bored of Education, if you prefer)

...GBK

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 Re: Jean Baptiste
Author: Pesty 
Date:   2010-12-27 15:56

Thank You GBK, So its just a run of the mill students clarinet ??

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 Re: Jean Baptiste
Author: David Spiegelthal 2017
Date:   2010-12-27 19:07

I believe it is a cheap Chinese-made student instrument, known colloquially around here as a "CSO" (Clarinet-Shaped Object).

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 Re: Jean Baptiste
Author: Pesty 
Date:   2010-12-27 21:35

Did they make or import Chinese made Clarinets in 1964 ????

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 Re: Jean Baptiste
Author: David Spiegelthal 2017
Date:   2010-12-27 22:08

Doubtful. Perhaps an 'old' Jean Baptiste such as yours is an actual quality instrument, but later an Asian maker stole the name and used it on their own products, like the Kohlert name is now used by a reportedly Vietnam-based company on low-priced instruments that have no connection with the original/real Kohlert company.

Who knows? The Chinese pump out millions of cheap instruments under hundreds of brand names, some legitimate and some not. Just about anybody nowadays can have his choice of brand name put on a generic Chinese musical instrument, all he has to do is find one of the factories and make the appropriate arrangements. Ask Tom Ridenour about how it's done.

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 Re: Jean Baptiste
Author: Lelia Loban 2017
Date:   2010-12-28 13:21

It's beyond unlikely this Jean Baptiste is a Chinese clarinet, with a New York City Board of Education stamp for 1964! The New York schools couldn't have purchased clarinets or anything else directly from China then, and because product imports from China (then known in the USA as "Red China") directly into the United States were against the law at the time, it seems unlikely that a major school system would have circumvented the law to buy Chinese clarinets through an importer in another country that did trade with China. (I was in high school across the bay from San Francisco in 1964, during the Lyndon Johnson administration, before Richard Nixon began to relax the bans against trade with China. None of the new merchandise available for sale in San Francisco's Chinatown at the time came from mainland China. A few things came from Taiwan and Hong Kong, but nearly all the "Chinese" souvenirs were tagged, "Made in Japan.")

Lelia
http://www.scoreexchange.com/profiles/Lelia_Loban
To hear the audio, click on the "Scorch Plug-In" box above the score.

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 Re: Jean Baptiste
Author: DavidBlumberg 
Date:   2010-12-28 13:30

Maybe Jean the Baptiste made it  ;)

http://www.MyTempoMusic.com

http://www.skypeclarinetlessons.com/about.html

Backun/Legere/BG/Silverstein

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 Re: Jean Baptiste
Author: genekeyes 2017
Date:   2010-12-28 13:48

Jean Baptiste was a store Brand for the Sam Ash chain. It was used as far back as I can remember (late 1950s) Their clarinets were decent student instruments. Instruments for the NYC public schools were purchased from many sources and Ash was a major supplier. I do not know anything about a Chinese co. buying or using the name but I am fairly sure that any of the older Jean Baptiste clarinets bought by the NYC schools were made in France and imported under that name for the Sam Ash stores.



Post Edited (2010-12-28 13:52)

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 Re: Jean Baptiste
Author: David Spiegelthal 2017
Date:   2010-12-28 13:59

Bingo! Thanks genekeyes, now it all makes sense. Nowadays just about any 'store brand' would be Chinese-made, but back then it was not the case, as Lelia pointed out.

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 Re: Jean Baptiste
Author: Chris P 
Date:   2010-12-28 15:00

I wass going to chime in and say they could be a Malerne or similar stencil.

Chris.

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 Re: Jean Baptiste
Author: Pesty 
Date:   2010-12-29 10:38

Thanks everybody........ I found a serial number on it I think. *H17470

if that means anything.

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 Re: Jean Baptiste
Author: David Spiegelthal 2017
Date:   2010-12-29 19:48

As for the clarinet in question, two things make me suspect it may have been made by Penzel-Mueller: the fact the P-M was a New York company combined with bits and pieces of circumstantial evidence over the years indicating that a few other NY-based distributors (e.g. Carl Fischer) commissioned P-M to make 'stencil' instruments for them; along with the similarity of the serial number to some P-M serial numbers I've seen or read about. But this is all speculation.



Post Edited (2010-12-29 19:53)

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 Re: Jean Baptiste
Author: David Spiegelthal 2017
Date:   2010-12-29 20:32

I got curious, did a little web-browsing and found a reference to a Penzel-Mueller "Empire State" model clarinet, serial number H127xx. Another reference mentioned a Penzel-Mueller "Empire" model with a serial number of H171xx, which the owner stated having owned since 1964. When I get home from work tonight I'll check my own P-M clarinets and see what sort of serial numbers they have. We may be onto something here.....



Post Edited (2010-12-29 20:43)

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 Re: Jean Baptiste
Author: kdk 2017
Date:   2017-12-20 01:24

Resurrecting this old thread because a student arrived at her lesson last night with a newly purchased Jean Baptiste CL67. This is the only thread I could find in the archive about the brand. With a fairly cursory look and quick trial playing, I thought it seemed like a decent student instrument. The intonation was good, the tone quality wasn't exciting but serviceable, and the student was impressed by how much easier the key action felt compared to the old junker she'd been borrowing from her school. It isn't what I think of as a clarinet-shaped object, Chinese or otherwise.

She bought it at Sam Ash, which fits with genekeys's comment 10 years ago that it is/was a Sam Ash store brand. I wonder if anyone here knows *for a fact* where these are made. CL67, which is explicitly a student-level clarinet, is the only model clarinet shown on the Jean Baptiste website. I've emailed the company (through the website) to ask them about the instrument, but I thought someone might have learned more about them since 2010.

Karl

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 Re: Jean Baptiste
Author: DavidBlumberg 
Date:   2017-12-20 01:48

They are Sam Ash's Brand

http://www.MyTempoMusic.com

http://www.skypeclarinetlessons.com/about.html

Backun/Legere/BG/Silverstein

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 Re: Jean Baptiste
Author: kdk 2017
Date:   2017-12-20 02:55

DavidBlumberg wrote:

> They are Sam Ash's Brand
>

I know, but who makes them?

I discovered another puzzlement after I posted my last question. On the Baptiste website they list one single model - the CL67. On the Sam Ash website, they also list a single model of Baptiste clarinet - the CL290.

So, are these the same clarinet? Is the name CL290 one that is specifically licensed for sale by Ash and the CL67 a model sold by other vendors? Or do they represent two different quality levels?

Karl

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 Re: Jean Baptiste
Author: clarnibass 
Date:   2017-12-20 09:21

Pretty much all "store brand name" student clarinets are made in China. They vary significantly and many are not "shaped objects" at all. The only non-Chinese student models afaik are the ones made by some of the known companies, like Yamaha, Amati, possibly Buffet and maybe a couple of others (can't remember anyone else right now).

If one one of those companies is making them for Sam Ash it could be from Czeck Republic or Indonesia, but it's unlikely. There are a few factories in China and many models of different levels (one factory could be making a decent model and a very cheap terrible model).

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 Re: Jean Baptiste
Author: DavidBlumberg 
Date:   2017-12-20 15:38

I can’t stand the brand and lost respect for Smash for pushing it.

Even the accessories are junk.

http://www.MyTempoMusic.com

http://www.skypeclarinetlessons.com/about.html

Backun/Legere/BG/Silverstein

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 Re: Bd Of Ed NYC clarinet
Author: doonebug 
Date:   2019-05-14 20:43
Attachment:  1960-G.-Penzel-Clarinet-BD OF ED NYC.jpg (57k)

Stirring the pot to add to this post.
I acquired an unknown brand bakelite clarinet in auction specifically for the long wooden case that was in good shape. In examining the clarinet, the Lower Joint is stamped with "BD OF ED NYC", followed by (next line) "54", followed by (next line) serial number 60314. The first thing that came to my mind was that a New York company had produced the clarinet, i.e. Pruefer, Penzel, etc. After reading this BBrd, I realized what (19)54 meant. After looking on the internet for ANY tid-bit, I came across an Eb clarinet that had same "NYC" markings, AND in addition, had a "G.Penzel" manufacturing stamp on it. I thought that I would add this info to this BBrd.



Post Edited (2019-05-14 21:12)

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