 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: uliano guerrini
Date: 2001-01-03 07:08
some times we are forced by the sequence of notes to switch between left and right hand pinky finger to play notes such as B C C# Eb (clarion) but most of the times we're free to choose
I found myself to have preferences for left and right pinky ie I play B & Eb with the left and C & C# with the right
my teacher, even not stressing it too much, told me to:
a) when there aren't drawbacks (ie B & then C#) play the B with both pinkies
b) give priority to the right hand pinkie and use the left only when required (I find this way terrible for playing descending Bb scale)
opinions?
suggestions?
uliano
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Author: uliano guerrini
Date: 2001-01-03 07:11
> when there aren't drawbacks (ie B & then C#) play the B with both pinkies
well, read the above as "play B with the left while pressing the C with the right"
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Author: Eoin McAuley
Date: 2001-01-03 08:44
The two-finger method of playing B should be used if the note before or after it is C. This involves the minimum of movement. If the notes on either side of the B do not include a C, then it is better to use just one little finger.
Most of us do not have the luxury of an Eb key for the left-hand little finger. You should learn to use your right little finger for this note as much as possible, as your next clarinet may not have the left hand key. With this in mind, I would have a general preference for C and Eb with the right, B and C# with the left. This pattern has been the norm on all clarinets since the 5-key clarinet of Mozart's day. But you should be equally comfortable with any combination.
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2001-01-03 14:20
Well said, Eoin, I agree. But the coordination of the E/B and F/C pad-seatings MUST be near perfect for single pinky use in cross fingering situations, IMHO. Don
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Author: William
Date: 2001-01-03 14:42
The only time I play both little fingers at the same time is when playing a chromatic scale. All other situations, I alternate. A good old book for little finger and special fingering studies is the Rubank Advanced Clarinet Method. Good clarineting.
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Author: Ken Shaw
Date: 2001-01-03 18:02
Uliano -
Learning clarinet technique is a series of simplifications.
As an absolute beginner, when you see a chalumeau C (first ledger line below the staff), you recognize the note, remember the fingering (left thumb + 3 fingers) and put down those fingers. If the next note is chalumeau D (just below the staff), you again recognize it, connect it with the fingering (left thumb + 2 fingers) and put down those fingers.
Your first simplification is to drop the middle step. You recognize the C and put down the correct fingers, and then recognize the D and put down the correct fingers. When I was a beginner (many, many years ago), it took me about a month to start doing this.
The second simplification is to drop the first step. You see the “C shape” or “D shape” and put down the correct fingers. You associate the shape with the physical sensation of playing the note. You make the recognition/finger movement process a single step, which you do without having to think about it. When I started playing, nobody told me about this, and it took 7 or 8 months before I made the connection. I remember the moment clearly -- I saw a clarion G (on top of the staff) and realized that I could drop everything in between and just make the “G feel” (left thumb + register key + 3 fingers). Then I realized I could do the same with top-line F, and so on, and I was off to the races.
The third simplification is to shift from reading the notes to reading the spaces between the notes. That is, you see chalumeau C followed by chalumeau D, and you play the “C feel” followed by the feel of what it takes to get to the next note -- the “C-to-D feel” of raising your left ring finger.
Advanced players build technique by learning various scale and chord patterns, all as groups of finger movements from one note to the next, and then from one-note-to-the-next-to-the-next-to-the-next. Your goal is to be able to recognize, say, an ascending scale and start your fingers on that sequence of movements. While your fingers are playing the scale, you eyes are looking ahead to recognize the next pattern.
As you learn to do this, you will recognize patterns (such as middle line B followed by third space C in a C major ascending scale) where your little finger will be on the B key and the next movement will be to lift it while having the other little finger on the C key. In this pattern, the most efficient way to play it is to put both little fingers down when you play the B, so that all you have to do for the C is raise one finger, and you learn to play it that way.
However, when you’re playing, say, the equivalent ascending scale in D major (where B is followed by C#), you waste motion and force a clumsy jump if you put down both little fingers for the B, and then have to jump to the C# key. What you learn for that pattern is to play the B with just one little finger, while placing the other over the C# key to be ready to make the exchange when you make the B-to-C# movement.
When you “burn” these patterns into your brain and muscle memory, you need to use the most efficient patterns, requiring the smallest amount of effort and finger movement. Where there are alternate fingerings, you have to get used to doing it both ways. Of course you will have a "standard" way of fingering, but you have to "burn" both ways so that either way feels natural.
When you play the Mozart Concerto, the entire thing is one giant learned set of finger movements. Only by doing it this way can you have the process of playing the instrument become part of your body, so that you can concentrate on the beauty and nobility of the music.
Best regards.
Ken Shaw
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Author: jerry
Date: 2001-01-03 23:31
Ken S. -
Been trying to learn this thing for 3 months now and I couldn't have stated it better myself.
Thanks for stating it the way you did - this may help me to "program" my fingers do do their duty.
~ jerry
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2001-01-04 08:36
It sounds as if the teacher has spent too much time playing on an out-of-adjustment instrument and no longer trusts the left pinky on its own on B. For this fingering not to work well is usually the first adjustment to deteriorate with use on a clarinet. It has many causes, and these may not all be attended to by a less-than-excellent repair technician.
Left pinky B should work easily and reliably.
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Author: uliano guerrini
Date: 2001-01-05 07:38
Gordon (NZ) wrote
> It sounds as if the teacher has spent too much time playing on an out-of-adjustment
> instrument and no longer trusts the left pinky on its own on B.
perfect diagnosis Mr. Holmes :-)))
she told me that his clarinet would have gone to the tech lab (after a tooo looooooong time) during this christmas holidays ...
she says that learning that way (both pinkies) is necessary beacause the mechanism could get out of adjustment just 5 minutes before the start of ...
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Author: uliano guerrini
Date: 2001-01-05 08:15
Ken Shaw wrote
> The second simplification is to[...] and it took 7 or 8 months
so, there's still hope :-)
>[...] patterns (such as middle line B followed by third space C in a C major ascending scale)
>[...] In this pattern, the most efficient way to play it is to put both little fingers down when
>you play the B, so that all you have to do for the C is raise one finger, and you learn to
>play it that way. [...] in D major (where B is followed by C#) [...] play the B with just one little
>finger, while placing the other over the C# key to be ready
I agree... my first "over the break song" was in G major and I remember clearly that in that circumstance I learned to play G A B C with the double fingering for the B (actually playing that song I still use the double fingering), at that time I hadn't started the school and I found by myself that the double fingering was the most efficent way to do so...
>When you “burn” these patterns into your brain and muscle memory, you need to use
>the most efficient patterns, requiring the smallest amount of effort and finger movement.
this will lead to dissimetry... some pattern (B-C) will ever be more efficient than others (B-C#)
I was happy with the double B finger and eventually I found myself in front of a D major song, I remeber clearly my disappointment when I realized that I had to burn down 2 different B fingering, so I reasoned that way (numbers are the pinkies)
B2 - C is more efficient than
B1 - C that is equally efficient than
B1 - C# that doesn't have alternatives
so there will ever be an efficeincy/speed bottleneck why spend energies to burn down another pattern (B2) that is better sometimes but sometimes doesn't work at all...
now I realize that this is strictly tied to my mathematic/scientific mentality (that, yes, it is really burned hard in my brains :-/)
now I realize the the clarinet is completely an asymmetric beast full of dirty tricks ... maybe I'll buy a keyboard just to give to my geeky mind something more "rational" (but the heart will ever beat for the clarinet ... :-))) )
> Where there are alternate fingerings, you have to get used to doing it both ways.
> Of course you will have a "standard" way of fingering, but you have to "burn" both
> ways so that either way feels natural.
fortunatly, life is (hopefully) long :-)
> When you play the Mozart Concerto
well ... sooo long??
> Best regards.
thanks a lot Ken,
you turn on the lights of a rational analisys on the long path I see in front of me
uliano
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Author: uliano guerrini
Date: 2001-01-05 08:27
Eoin McAuley wrote
> Most of us do not have the luxury of an Eb key for the left-hand little finger.
luxury??? when I bought my instrument I ve seen that is standard: even the more economic plastic clarinet had it.
> You should learn to use your right little finger for this note as much as possible, as your
> next clarinet may not have the left hand key.
well, apart that having spent $1500 after 2 month clarineting I REALLY HOPE to be happy with my RC for a REALLY LONG period (I made some sacrifice and gave my soul to the demon of the cracks...), I don't see any good reason that my next clarinet be without left Eb... is there any?
uliano
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2001-01-05 12:59
Interesting. The many Grassi clarinets I used to see and the few newer Orsis I've seen - I think also from Italy - didn't have a left Eb.
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2001-01-05 13:06
By the way NEVER buy a Selmer Paris 'Prologue' with the left Eb option. The mechanism was designed in hell and is next to impossible to correct. Push the key down mormally and the silencer cork is ripped off the lever-to-key linkage. Press it firmly and the lever jumps out from under the linkage and causes all sorts of problems. Returning it to proper function is not the sort of thing one could easily do in the middle of a concert! A thousand shames on Selmer for marketing this disgrace, and indeed, CONTINUING to market it!
The design for the 'Symphony' model is far better.
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Author: uliano guerrini
Date: 2001-01-05 16:32
to tell the truth my first clarinet was an old (& bad) orsi without the Eb key...
however at the shop they told me that 99% of seriously clarinet players in italy play buffet... other marks are considered only for up to $500-$700 horns
that shop is selling buffet so it may not mean a thing...
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2001-01-06 15:19
As a repair technician I find Orsis (bought only a few years ago) to be poor in their mechanical design and manufacture (hence reliability of adjustment), just like the old Grassis. Did they come from the same mould I wonder.
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Author: Cass
Date: 2001-01-06 22:52
Orsi has made some interesting stuff, though. They have a reputation for their unusual instruments. They even make contrabass saxophones, for the L. A. Sax label. You can see them on the web site,
http://www.lasax.com
I don't know if they're any good, but it's neat that somebody even bothers. I mean, how many of those are they likely to sell? I never tried an Orsi clarinet, though. Seems like companies that get a great reputation for one type of instrument don't necessarily do a great job on other ones.
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