 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: MylesPrower
Date: 2010-12-22 01:08
Hey, I've been lurking around these forums for a while, finally decided to post =)
I am soon planning on purchasing a professional-level clarinet, and besides the obvious Buffet and Leblanc, I've also been looking at Fratelli Patricola. Does anyone have any experience with this brand? I've heard that they make great instruments with unique sound qualities, but they're not very common, so perhaps there's a reason for that?
I hope there is some interesting information to be shared!
Thanks!
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2010-12-22 02:22
Uh-oh! Free-thinking radical alert - sound the alarms!
Your best bet is to compare as many pro model instruments from as many different makes as you can in the one place, then narrow it down until you find the one instrument you like as it'll be you playing it and don't be swayed by the maker's stamp.
Also seek the opinion of a trusted teacher, colleague or friend to see which one they think sounds best to them, but do this blind so they don't know which make/model you're playing (and try to hide the makes/models from yourself as much as you can when testing them all).
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: luca1
Date: 2010-12-22 03:14
I recently (this past month) purchased a used Patricola ....admittedly falling for its good looks, rather than having firsthand experience of its singing voice. I am very impressed. The tone is beautiful, and the tuning is superior to my R13....though just slightly inferior to my Ridenour Lyrique (which is almost obscenely spot-on at all times)The key-work is also better than my Golden Age Buffet. The rosewood Patricola clarinet, now in its 6 year, has no hint of cracking...a fear I did have ....but then don't we all with these natural wooden products.....
Chris P has made some sound recommendations - try lots of instruments ... and have blind testing if possible! Of course in that event I'm quite sure that you'd pick up the Ridenour Lyrique ... it would shine in a blind test, where prejudices are left at the door, and one can't be swayed by a wink and a glance from a comely Italian
or French clarinet ....
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Author: ISM
Date: 2010-12-22 05:46
Myles,
I thought of buying a Patricola earlier this year when I was in the market. The opinions I've read have been positive. The problem is: Where do you go to try before you buy? I decided that I'm more comfortable with trying a variety of instruments and picking one I like than I am with getting one by mail order, or worse, at auction.
Imre
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Author: MylesPrower
Date: 2010-12-22 05:51
Thanks everyone for the wonderful advice. It's especially nice to hear that after 6 years, your Rosewood Patricola has not cracked, even in a colder climate.
Imre: My problem exactly! I've also been wondering about where I can try the clarinets before purchase. I was thinking RDG Woodwinds initially, but it seems that they only have the E-flat model on-stock... I don't know of any other Patricola retailers that will let you try before buying, especially in SoCal...
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Author: donald
Date: 2010-12-22 07:43
Wait until Clarinetfest is there next year, and get in early- be first in line at to try out stuff before the exhibition rooms get filled with people and noise.
just an idea
dn
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Author: sonicbang
Date: 2010-12-22 08:06
While I find some really poor Buffet horns nowdays for their price (among RC, RC Prestige, E13 E11 too) I was impressed one or two years ago in an exibition. ALL Patricola I tried was superb. I tried rosewood and grenadilla, A and B full Boehm system (really cool) . In my opinion their sound is superior to an average Buffet, but if you have the chance to pick a Prestige from 15-20 horns, it is better.
.
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2010-12-22 10:11
From the many Patricola clarinets I've tried, some were very good, excellent tone. Some had a bit of inconsistent tone. A few had some really awful sounding notes, like an A clarinet with the worst throat Bb of just about any clarinet I've tried, and it even had an extra vent key for this note. The keys were pretty comfortable, for me not as comfortable as some other clarinets but ok, no problems that would stop me from buying. Condition from factory was overall decent for most but some had problems. I would consider a Patricola but definitely wouldn't buy one without trying it first, prettty much the same as with any other company.
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Author: concertmaster3
Date: 2010-12-22 15:15
Muncy does trials doesn't he? He sells them. I'm thinking about making the trip up there to try them out. I know WWBW sells them as well as Prowinds. I'm not sure of their trial options. You may have to buy it and return it if you don't like it from the latter mentioned places.
Ron Ford
Woodwind Specialist
Performer/Teacher/Arranger
http://www.RonFordMusic.com
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Author: saxlite
Date: 2010-12-22 15:24
I purchased a Patricola Eefer from Muncy Winds after trying them at the NAMM show. In my opinion, the construction of these instruments is far better than any of the "name" brands. The company is family owned and any questions or issues are quickly and personally resolved ( I asked for a custom barrel and actually got it! ) I love my Patricola and really appreciate the way they do business. Phil Muncy and his people are also very easy to do business with. Give them a try, I think you'll be very satisfied with both the instrument and the purchase process.
Jerry
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Author: kdk ★2017
Date: 2010-12-22 15:48
clarnibass wrote:
> A few had some really awful sounding notes, like an A clarinet
> with the worst throat Bb of just about any clarinet I've tried,
> and it even had an extra vent key for this note.
Did you check to make sure the vent key was working properly? That's one of the features on my Patricola C clarinet that I really like, but if the vent isn't opening enough (or at all) I can imagine the results might be pretty awful.
Karl
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2010-12-22 17:38
>> Did you check to make sure the vent key was working properly? <<
Yes. The throat Bb was terrible with the vent working. Just to compare, I tried it with the extra vent closed to see what happens. It was even worse.
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Author: hreisenfeld
Date: 2010-12-25 15:06
I tried the patricola at woodwind and brasswind for 45 days. I tested the patricola which I thought was terrific with a professional and we decided that the unique tone was not good when blending with other Buffets. For soloing ar possibly playing with different instruments the horn was beautiful. It is very well made ane should not crack as they are weathered for 11 years before they are worked on. good luck.
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Author: Brenda ★2017
Date: 2010-12-25 15:46
Although not in the market for a clarinet, my husband convinced me to try one at ClarinetFest two years ago. I was definitely impressed with the tone of those that I tried and could easily have traded my Buffet for one of those. I already have a Rossi (I love the sound of that baby!) and these reminded me of how wonderfully different the non-Buffet can be. Try them and see what you think.
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Author: sonicbang
Date: 2010-12-27 07:18
Hmmm....the expression 'non-Buffet' makes me think the whole market is badly overrun by this brand.
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Author: Klarnetisto
Date: 2010-12-30 02:48
I'm coming to the conclusion that Buffet is the clarinet world's American Steinway: regarded as a benchmark by so many, to the exclusion of almost anything else, even when in reality it can be inconsistent, especially in recent years.
I have played some wonderful Steinways, but they tend to be older ones. For me, the best currently-made piano is by Fazioli -- leaves Steinway in the dust, frankly!
Similarly, I adore my old Albert-system Buffet Bb. But there are many other excellent vintage clarinets which deserve to be known and played.
Klarnetisto
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Author: phy
Date: 2011-01-14 22:18
I've had a Patricola C rosewood for about 6 years as well. (They seem to come out with a new model every other year, always with some new and improved feature, so I always feel like a sucker, having bought their early model, whenever I go on their website ; ).)
I like it eough. I mean, I'm an amateur player and have problems with my Patricola that are common to all clarinets, so I can't really make out if the problem is my playing or the instrument (most likely my playing).
My biggest issue with the clarinet right now is finding the right reed for it. Vandoren V12 3.5 works well enough, but I find the Black Master works even better (but it leaks because it is smaller). Maybe the shorter German reed works better for the C clarinet?
Anyway, I've been scouring youtube for postings by Patricola rosewood C owners to see how other players are handling their instruments. The recording on the Patricola website features a light, sweet, reedy sound. I wonder if other players get a darker rounder sound.
Perhaps people will be interested in posting their playing (here or on youtube)?
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Author: Alex Eich
Date: 2011-01-14 22:44
Sorry, I have no experience with the horns, however, felt the need to reply to phy...
I assume you are aware that the black master reeds are made for Austrian style mouthpieces and clarinets - if you want them to work properly, you will need to reface the m'piece (has been done). If this is a little too destructive for your liking, then, based on what you wrote above, try the Vand' 56 Rue Lepic reeds. They are thicker cut than the traditional or V12 reeds, and I personally find they yield the purest sound of any reed I've tried on my Bb and A. Oh, and response is amaaaazing. Anyway, if your looking for a different sound/reed, give them a go. Just my two cents.
Alex Eich
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Author: Franklin Liao
Date: 2011-03-18 22:04
I, this horrible amateur, tried out the Rosewood Patricola CL.2 Bb today, about 5-6 years old. What a pleasant ride with a little caveat. This is just a shallow impression against the horns that I have though, being CSGH and the Marigaux RS Symphonie.
Ergonomically speaking, this clarinet is inferior to the RS Symphonie. The key arrangement around the crow's foot are standard faire and their placement isn't as intuitive to me as the Symphonie, as I try to glide my right pinky. The keys have no issue mechanically however. The relative lightness of the instrument weight wise is rather delightful.
Mechanically speaking, I can't help but to note the inclusion of adjusters on the crow's foot. Morrie's Bliss has the same feature. There is a voicing groove over the bell of the instrument. The bore is not lined. The Eb lever is mounted on separate post, which is welcoming.
What is very surprising to me is the uniqueness in the sound. The rosewood horn can project without any effort whatsoever. It felt quite passionate an instrument (is this even appropriate a description?), inviting towards the altissimo register, with even response except more resistance at the throat. There is no real issue to me intonation wise. The feeling of vibration is not the same as that of Grenadilla.
Overall, my personal bias favor that of RS Symphonie. Between the Patricola and the CSG however, I find this to be a tough one. CSG and Patricola are different beasts, to the point of making me of think of apple vs orange in some sense. There is a very powerful sense of character in the Patricola, to the mind of this amateur.
EDIT1: I have to agree about the matter of Patricola as something that won't blend with the sea of R-13. To me, only the keywork is what the Patricola can hope to come to terms with R-13. Everything else about the horn is irreconcilable to the modern R-13 (this novice can only use *meh* to describe the ones that I've played with in music store)
EDIT2: Played with it some more during midnight. Still getting used to the left pinky landing areas. The instrument is lyrical and quite a joy really.
Post Edited (2011-03-19 11:25)
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Author: Rob Ronald
Date: 2013-03-06 18:14
I have been playing Rosewood Patricola Clarinets for the last 8 years. I like them. I played symphonically for many years, and when I quit I changed clarinets. My main gig now is chamber music: Clarinet, Cello, Piano Trio; and WW5 Quintet. I bought the Patricola's because I find the sound works better with the trio - it is much easier to achieve a good sound balance with the cello. I chose a Bb that has a much lighter sound than the A and it works for me with the trio. It took me a while to get the setup right and I had to change a number of things, especially on the Bb where I installed mostly cork pads in the upper joint. I finally achieve the sound I wanted when I bought a Pomarico Ebony mouthpieces (0 and -1) and used Zonda reeds (3 - 3.5) and tied the reeds on with a string. Although when I play in the community band I usually use a Mitchell Lurie Springboard ligature. I don't think the Patricola clarinet blends especially well with all the Buffets in the band, but it seems to only bother the trumpet players on the other side of the band.
I think the Rosewood clarinets require a little more maintenance than what I was used to with African Blackwood clarinets in the past. The tone holes tend to get dirtier and need to be occasionally carefully reamed out. I appreciate that rosewood is much a much lighter wood and therefore much easier on my thumb.
The quality of the Patricola clarinets is very high. I like the extra keys, but I think the Bb vent key is of dubious value. The intonation of my clarinets is good, except that on the Bb the high F# is too low in pitch.
Overall I highly recommend the Patricola, but if you buy one I think you have to get committed to a completely different set up. My impression is that most of the clarinetists play Buffets and most of the accessories are weighted towards working well on Buffet clarinets. That being said I like the unique sound of the Patricolas and believe that one can find mouthpieces and reeds that work well for them. And if you are in the market for a C-clarinet I think the Patricola C-clarinets are the best I have ever played. I have had a Buffet C-clarinet for decades and it only plays in tune because I altered the length of the joints - yes, on a lathe. The Patricola C-clarinets play beautifully out of the box!
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