 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: George Taylor
Date: 2009-04-04 10:34
I've just been trying the two Buffet Low C Bass Models at Howarth's in London, where they have two of each and was wondering of the benefits of either model. I tried the Selmer but the price is just too much for me, so it is down to the Buffets for me. I couldn't really tell much difference between them apart from the weight difference, but was looking for some thoughts.
Any advice would be great!
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Author: USFBassClarinet
Date: 2009-04-04 15:01
never played a greenline instrument. I imagine it's durability is a plus though for outside playing. I'll be interest in what other people say though. Is the selmer really more expensive in london than the buffet? I got my selmer in August this year for considerably less than I could get a buffet.
I will say I've heard a story in the past of a clarinetist who had a hard plastic stand for his clarinet. He dropped his greenline onto in the last two inches or so by accident and it broke. not sure how much this stuff is true, but it seems that even though outside playing is a bonus, perhaps the greenlines are brittle?
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Author: crnichols
Date: 2009-04-04 15:14
I'd be interested in some of the benefits a synthetic bass might offer. I imagine the stability of the material might help them stay in good adjustment for long periods of time. As the quality of the Buffet Prestige Low C Bass Clarinet is really excellent, I look forward to trying the Greenline version of it.
Christopher Nichols, D.M.A.
Assistant Professor of Clarinet
University of Delaware
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Author: George Taylor
Date: 2009-04-04 15:33
Thanks guys. All 5 basses I tried seemed in excellent regulation, so it is a little hard to tell on that level. The greenline seemed to sing very well and had a lot of punch, even more then the wooden version, but I've never played greenline anything before, so I'm a little in the dark on the whole concept. Does anyone have any experience of the material moving in time?
The Selmer's are more expensive, by over £2000 in London, so it is really is a question of the Buffet's for me. I know they are still pricey, but being able to try five basses was just too good an opportunity as I@m in the market at the moment. Especially with all the mouthpieces on offer at Howarths, and with the staff who are quite helpful I don't mind paying the prices. Better then waiting 6 months as I quoted at another store in the UK!
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Author: aero145
Date: 2009-04-04 21:54
Sad that the Selmer is so expensive in London - I tried a couple of Selmers and a couple of Buffets today, and in my opinion the Selmers were very noticeably better. The Buffet aren’t bad at all, but I found quite some ’sing’ missing from them.
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Author: George Taylor
Date: 2009-04-06 14:49
So I went back in to Howarths today to try the Buffet's again, and have nearly been converted to the Selmer. Howarths are hosting Morrie Backun for a few days and I got to try his bell for the bass! What a piece of work, it not just looks great, but sounds amazing. I found that the response over the whole instrument changed and it was great. Howarths don't have a buffet backun bell in stock, but I can only imagine it also makes the instrument play even better.
I was now wondering about other wooden bells though, any advice? I like being able to try everything before buying, so I understand that rules Rossi out, but does anyone have any comparisons between Backun bells and other wooden bells. Also, what about Backun bass bells on buffet, how do they rate?
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Author: Brenda Siewert
Date: 2009-04-06 18:36
Never played a bass greenline, but do own a new R-13 greenline and love it. You can look up my thread that ran on the bboard recently.
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Author: Grabnerwg
Date: 2009-04-06 18:59
I am a Buffet dealer so please bear that in mind as you read this.
I have tried the Greenline 1193 and found it to be an excellent instrument. I have NOT tried a grenadilla vs Greenline in a concert hall with a blind test so I can't reasonably tell you which one I prefer.
However, I have long wanted Buffet to make a Greenline bass, especially for people who travel a lot or play bass clarinet in extreme climates, as we all know that the wood shrinks and/or expands considerably from locale to locale.
In my (humble) opinion, Buffet has come up with a wonderful instrument and a worthy addition to their clarinet offerings.
Walter Grabner
www.clarinetxpress.com
New Buffet Clarinet
World Class Hand Crafted Mouthpieces
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Author: Low_Reed
Date: 2010-12-21 11:34
Has anyone tried out this very tantalizing horn since spring 2009?
**Music is the river of the world!**
-- inspired by Tom Waits and a world full of music makers
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2010-12-21 16:26
Greenline material is very consistant as far as remaining stable over time. The advantage to Greenline over wood for me is that once the clarinet has been through final machining and tuning, it seems to hold pitch better than wooden counterparts. So I would be inclined to purchase Greenline utility horns (Eb as well) over wood any day.
There is a bit of brittleness associated with the joints since for all purposes the material is really just a highly sophisticated pressboard. I had a soprano keel over onto its key side (usually this sort of thing presents no real problems) on a hard floor and it cracked in half (tenon of upper joint snapped right off). So, just be mindful that they are hygromatically impervious, able to take extreme temperature changes and yet cannot survive being thrown against a wall.
..................Paul Aviles
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Author: tonyl
Date: 2010-12-22 02:22
USFBassClarinet states he heard a story of someone dropping his Greenline by accident and the horn broke. Yes, it can and has happened. To me! I accidently dropped an R-13 Greenline just this past Veteran's Day. I dropped it right before a parade was about to start. The bell broke in half. The rest of the clarinet survived. I taped both halves of the bell together and was able to complete the parade.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2010-12-22 02:29
I've transplanted a few Greenline top joints for the RM band service which had broken middle tenons, and also seen several other broken Greenline joints and bells in the spare parts drawer in their repairs workshop. Fitting the tenons wasn't the easiest of jobs as it takes more effort to shave them down compared to fitting an equivalent wooden tenon due to the hardness of the material.
I don't know if they will consider a metal sleeve at the centre tenon to add strength - definitely something a Greenline (and plastic) bass could do with having just to be on the safe side.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: USFBassClarinet
Date: 2010-12-22 03:13
I listened to a friend of mine try a few side by side with regular buffets at clarinet fest. They sounded just as good as regular buffet basses to me. We went up stairs to some of the empty rooms to try them out rather than the noisy demo room.
If it matters, she picked a selmer instead.
Don't remember who I heard from, but I was told that the first few years of greenline were more brittle than the current ones. As far as the truth of that, I have no idea. I haven't heard of any others breaking though. I also don't know anyone with one anymore.
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Author: Reedirect
Date: 2010-12-22 10:05
I personally do not understand the Green Line enthusiasm. In my opinion it is just artificial composite material baked from grenadilla powder (remnants from the lathe otherwise being swept up and disposed of?) and resin. As being as expensive as a wood clarinet I would always opt for the naturally grown wooden one. Wood may also crack but you would never be able to detach an entire tenon by whatever trauma you submit your clarinet to. For the purpose of running around in the open a decent Yamaha student model with ABS body would perfectly do for a fration of the price of a Green Line Buffet. You can even use an ABS body as a softball bat and it would not crack or splinter let alone break apart (with the exception of using it as such in Alaska in January at -10°F).
Best
Jo
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2010-12-22 11:13
Jo,
The 'enthusiasm' is based on the fact that in the foreseeable future there won't be any African Blackwood anymore.
That said, my favorite thing about them is the consistant pitch. As you know, wood settles. So wooden clarinets have a tendency to become pitched (internally speaking) differently than they were from the time they leave the factory. That said, the sound of the sopranos is slightly less "pingy" but barely noticeable.
And of course there is the ability for the clarinets to endure frigid outside temperatures and extremely wet conditions with no deleterious effects.
Other than that................ no reason.
...................Paul Aviles
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2010-12-22 11:48
If they manage the grenadilla well, then there will be plenty of it to make instruments from for years to come.
Only problem being the boom in Chinese manufacturing which will ignore any kind of timber management just to get as many instruments made with disregard to the source of materials - once grenadilla has been wiped out, they'll move onto other tropical hardwoods only to do the same thing.
The big name companies that have a decent grenadilla stock will in turn have to increase their prices due to the scarcity of decent timber, and with the increase in copper prices as most of the copper is being scavanged for export to China for use in electronics, alloys such as brass, bronze and nickel silver will cost more and all instruments will in turn cost a fortune.
So enjoy it while it lasts.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2010-12-22 12:04
Chris P wrote:
> Only problem being the boom in Chinese manufacturing which will
> ignore any kind of timber management just to get as many
> instruments made with disregard to the source of materials -
> once grenadilla has been wiped out, they'll move onto other
> tropical hardwoods only to do the same thing.
It's not a "Chinese" issue, it's a "boom" issue. Every manufacturer will give a wet fart about sustainability unless that extra bit of consideration can be sold at a premium, in form of a colourful sticker on the box.
As far as I am aware, no manufacturer uses FSC certified wood for their musical instruments (Hanson being a notable exception).
--
Ben
Post Edited (2010-12-22 12:04)
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Author: William
Date: 2010-12-22 14:38
"no manufacturer uses FSC certified wood "
Oh Good Grief!!!!! Another thing to worry about. What is "FSC" anyhow and why is it important?!?
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2010-12-22 14:43
William wrote:
> "no manufacturer uses FSC certified wood "
>
> Oh Good Grief!!!!! Another thing to worry about. What is
> "FSC" anyhow and why is it important?!?
http://www.fsc.org/
And while I'm having your attention, there's
http://www.msc.org/ too.
--
Ben
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