 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Benjamin
Date: 2010-12-11 04:20
Hi everyone, I'm one of the finalists for the YouTube Symphony and hope you'll check out my video and vote for it if you like it:
http://goo.gl/Ct8ww
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Author: Benjamin
Date: 2010-12-11 04:32
There are a lot of other great videos on other instruments, too
You can vote for all of your favorites, up to once per video per day. Voting ends December 17th and winners will be announced January 11th. Musicians selected will be invited to perform in a week-long classical music summit of rehearsals, concerts, and master classes at the Sydney (Australia) Opera House in March 2011, culminating in a performance conducted by Michael Tilson Thomas.
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Author: Iceland clarinet
Date: 2010-12-11 05:42
It seems pretty easy to pick out in the clarinet section(Bb,A,E-flat and Bass). Little bit harder for the bass clarinet but in the other two sections some stand way above others in my opinion.
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Author: Morrigan
Date: 2010-12-11 09:40
The clarinet section is definitely hard to pick, however the bassoon section I found had a clear leader in that he was the only one who played the excerpt correctly.
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Author: Neal Raskin
Date: 2010-12-11 11:39
Just listened to the Eb auditions, though choice! All four are really fantastic players. The bass players are all really outstanding too. It's a little harder to make a decision on the bass players because the acoustic properties of each recording are very different. Great audition Ben!
www.youtube.com/nmraskin
www.musicedforall.com
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Author: Benjamin
Date: 2010-12-11 13:42
Thanks for listening! Yes, had I the time to record again, I would have brought the camera (with a built in omnidirectional mic) much closer. Quite a live church!
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Author: Bob Phillips
Date: 2010-12-11 16:33
Don't forget to look at all of the master classes on ALL the instruments. Wonderful insights into auditioning!
Bob Phillips
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Author: Iceland clarinet
Date: 2010-12-12 17:19
When I listened to the 12 finalists I thought that maybe there weren't enough "qualified" players auditioning and then I listen to some others players out there that did audition and I'm just one big ? I've even listened to one player that did a better job than almost all of 12 players in the final.
Of course there are players there that did up to almost flawless job but sorry to say they leave me cold. I rather want to hear 95% well done playing that touch me rather than 100% well done playing that leave me cold.
Post Edited (2010-12-12 17:27)
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Author: Iceland clarinet
Date: 2010-12-12 17:45
When judging in an audition what matters more 100% perfect performance that does not touch the jury or 95% perfect performance that does touch the jury ?
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Author: Iceland clarinet
Date: 2010-12-12 19:11
Ok so if they don't find one 100% like that Davie then they have the chair in an symphony orchestra open for many many years and search for the hoily grail like we do in the mothpiece search?. Hmmm I wonder how many decades it will take to fill up the solo chairs in Chicago and New York symphonies).
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Author: tdinap
Date: 2010-12-13 17:16
Did anyone else hear a cut in this recording around 0:35 or so?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=9G92BR-bu1Y#t=31s
The guy sounds great overall, but editing seems a little cheap.
Tom
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Author: LarryBocaner ★2017
Date: 2010-12-13 19:52
Entre nous I found all of the bass clarinet finalists clueless as to the interpretation of the music mandated.
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Author: grifffinity
Date: 2010-12-13 20:08
Sean Osborn's playing is so smooth...
Is it possible he wasn't a finalist because he is an established professional? He really blows every other recording out of the water - no question.
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Author: Iceland clarinet
Date: 2010-12-13 21:44
grifffinity said about Sean Osborn
"Is it possible he wasn't a finalist because he is an established professional?"
I don't think so because last year Marco Mazzini played the bass clarinet in the orchestra.
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Author: TianL
Date: 2010-12-13 21:51
David S - for someone who wins it, he/she gets a free trip to austria!
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Author: clarinetist04
Date: 2010-12-14 00:19
This is pretty cool - I've never heard if this until now.
Also a good tool - for all those threads about becoming a clarinet major. See how many good clarinetists there are out there? You're right, there are a lot of great instrumentalists who didn't make the finals.
Oh well. Not what they were looking for evidently.
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Author: SteveG_CT
Date: 2010-12-14 00:40
I hate to say it but it almost looks like being photogenic was a more important requirement than playing ability when selecting the finalists. In my opinion Sean Osborn's playing was clearly better than any of the players that were actually selected for the finals.
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Author: Benjamin
Date: 2010-12-14 03:12
Larry, I'm always striving to improve my playing and musicianship and open to other possible ways of playing. How would you interpret these pieces?
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Author: EEBaum
Date: 2010-12-14 06:16
Interpretation-wise, I'd like to see the stuff taken a bit less... safe. That one guy on Eb does it, though I might like a *tad* more accuracy on his part. But then, I hardly imagine that cackling witches are all that concerned with accuracy.
-Alex
www.mostlydifferent.com
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Author: LarryBocaner ★2017
Date: 2010-12-14 13:47
Benjamin, I was referring primarily to the Don Quixote excerpt. The bass clarinet, along with the tenor tuba (euphonium) plays the part of Sancho Panza, Quixote's country bumpkin servant. Having had the privilege of performing this with a number of top-rank conductors, I've been asked to play it almost without expression (and much slower than most of the finalists) -- in a "wooden" manner, as a foil to the Don's (solo cello) histrionics. Listen to the Karajan/Rostropovich or the Bernstein/Vienna Phil recordings. ( I wondered if the YouTube finalists had even bothered to listen to recorded interpretations of the work.)
The Nutcracker Trepak exerpt: given that all of the finalists seem to have had low-C instruments, why didn't they play the quarter note C# an octave lower than written -- obviously the composer compromised that note in the melody, not knowing that in later generations the bass clarinet would be able to play it intact.
I didn't mean to imply that the finalists aren't good and talented players -- maybe they just need to have some enlightened coaching!
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Author: Benjamin
Date: 2010-12-15 03:40
Larry, thank you for your advice. Although I’m not familiar with the recordings you mentioned, I’m sure they’re good and will look forward to hearing them. I do think the passages can convincingly demonstrate the character at various tempos. For instance, here’s a recording that is even faster than what I play:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f4MoMDdmSxI&feature=mfu_in_order&list=UL
Although Sancho Panza is his servant, he is, in fact, smarter than Don Quixote. He’s level-headed and, as his servant, is doing his best to keep Don Quixote alive and out of trouble and is really the only one who doesn’t try to take advantage of Don Quixote’s delusions. In modern society, Don Quixote would likely have been diagnosed as a schizophrenic, which the story tends to poke fun at. Often, Sancho Panza gets exasperated with Don Quixote, having to save him from himself all the time, but he sticks by him as his loyal, patient servant.
So, if I had a job where a conductor wanted me to play a certain way, of course I would do my best to do that, but playing in an expressionless manner doesn’t make sense to me based on the character’s role in the story. Rather, it seems to be a more superficial interpretation based on his subservient role.
In the Trepak excerpt, I played the notes in the range they were written because changing the notes in an audition situation doesn’t seem like a good idea (since they gave us copies of the music to play from), even if it’s more logical to play them differently. Were I playing in an orchestra, I might play the C# an octave lower for fun, but nobody would probably notice either way.
Thanks again for listening and for the feedback!
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Author: clarinet0509
Date: 2010-12-15 19:06
Hi guys I'm also a finalist (on clarinet) I would love some feedback, and if you like my video, please vote for me. Thanks!
http://goo.gl/nO5US
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Author: mrn
Date: 2010-12-16 04:18
Iceland wrote:
Quote:
You can see what Sean Osborn had to say about this audition.
One comment even states that this strange judging was going on for most of the other section like trumpets,violins etc.
I have to agree with him.
It seems less strange if you've read the Official Rules carefully and understand how the judging process works. (http://tinyurl.com/25ljr3e)
Although much is made on the YouTube website of the London Symphony musicians' selecting the finalists (or at least it was when I submitted my own entry two years ago), what they fail to mention is that according to the Official Rules, the real first round of judging is done by the advertising agency Google (YouTube's parent company) hired to administer the contest. Although the professional musicians from the LSO are technically responsible for the list of finalists/alternates, it's the ad agency that decides which entrants the LSO musicians can consider, so they have the real say-so.
They probably eliminated Sean from the competition at the outset. The reality of competing against someone of his level of musical talent pretty much kills the Cinderella fantasy for most of YTSO's target audience. From the marketing folks' perspective, having him in the competition would have been counterproductive to their marketing/promotional aims.
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Author: Javier Llopis
Date: 2010-12-16 08:56
Hello everyone.
I think it was all a farce by the jury of YTSO.
The competition had better clarinetists that some of those who have reached the final.
If you really wanted an orchestra of students have put in the rules.
My experience in this contest has been unpleasant and I will never recommend anyone this contest. They were not interested in musicians who were playing more than them.
I am very angry, never received any confirmation mail that I get my video from Eb clarinet, did so with more people.
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Author: Iceland clarinet
Date: 2010-12-16 16:52
mrn wrote:
"They probably eliminated Sean from the competition at the outset. The reality of competing against someone of his level of musical talent pretty much kills the Cinderella fantasy for most of YTSO's target audience."
As I said then Marco Mazzini played bass clarinet in 2009 and David Rowden from Sydney that is in the finalists group this year has studied with some major names such as Ricardo Morales,Andrew Marriner,Anthony Pay,Peter Schmidl,Meinfred Preis to name few,he has been invited to perform as guest Principal with the Australian Opera and Ballet Orchestra and the Seoul Philharmonic Orchestra in South Korea and is even so infamous to have a mouthpiece specially made and named after him by Lomax so how do you state the reason for what you said ?
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Author: clarinet0509
Date: 2010-12-16 18:50
Hi guys I'm also a finalist (on clarinet) I would love some feedback, and if you like my video, please vote for me. Thanks!
http://goo.gl/nO5US
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Author: donald
Date: 2010-12-16 21:39
Mark- watch out for the throat G in the Beethoven excerpt, it tends to be flat in many renditions of this and it is a tad in yours. I've been told by players with "audition panel" experience that this is an easy way to eliminate candidates. Another thing to bear in mind is that the high G at the end is not the end of the piece and is only a quaver/8th note. I've heard it played all different ways, but the way the composer wrote is probably the way least likely to earn a demerit point.
I have a friend/colleague who moves like you when she plays- it makes it very easy to play 2nd clarinet to her, but when she plays 2nd to me i find it very annoying. I don't mind what you do, and don't want to start another "should people move when playing" thread, but just feel i should mention that it may be held against you in an audition and it is good to be able to restrain oneself until after you have a tenured position!
nice playing- good luck getting to Sydney!
dn
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Author: clarinet0509
Date: 2010-12-16 21:46
Thanks so much for the feedback. I agree with everything you're saying. If I were to record that again, I probably would've recorded the excerpts sitting, because I usually move much less! Thanks again:)
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Author: mrn
Date: 2010-12-18 21:39
Iceland wrote:
Quote:
As I said then Marco Mazzini played bass clarinet in 2009 and David Rowden from Sydney that is in the finalists group this year has studied with some major names such as Ricardo Morales,Andrew Marriner,Anthony Pay,Peter Schmidl,Meinfred Preis to name few,he has been invited to perform as guest Principal with the Australian Opera and Ballet Orchestra and the Seoul Philharmonic Orchestra in South Korea and is even so infamous to have a mouthpiece specially made and named after him by Lomax so how do you state the reason for what you said ?
Easy. You're looking at this as a clarinetist--and one who's familiar with many of the big names in the field.
But the people who did the initial judging in this competition were ad executives. They almost certainly came into this with very little or no idea of who these competitors were. Even many people who have a keen interest in classical music--indeed, even many professional musicians--are unlikely to know all of those names you mention. How many violinists have heard of Lomax mouthpieces, after all?
(I won't get into the question of, "What difference does it make who he studied with?" here, even though I think that's a legitimate question, too--we could have a whole thread on just that topic alone.)
But anyone (whether they have any musical sense at all) who bothers to read the caption of Sean Osborn's video knows that....
"Clarinetist Sean Osborn is an international soloist, formerly a member of the Metropolitan Opera Orchestra. He has performed as guest principal clarinet with the New York Philharmonic, Seattle Symphony, Pittsburgh Symphony and others."
...because that's precisely what it says.
On the other hand, you have to know a thing or two already about David Rowden to know who he is. All his caption says is, "MrDavidrowden's webcam video November 23, 2010, 05:46 PM."
So if you look at this through the eyes of the ad agency people who are doing the initial screening/judging, Sean Osborn looks like a really famous professional player with whom no amateur can realistically compete, while David Rowden is just some guy with an upright piano in a corner of his house.
As for Marco Mazzini, I don't recall his having put a resume or bio in the captions to any of his videos, either. And moreover, Marco's story plays well into YouTube's marketing campaign, because he's an example of someone who has successfully used the Internet (and specifically YouTube) to advance his career. Same thing for flutist Nina Perlove, who was also selected to play with YTSO that year.
Perhaps if Sean had kept his video caption a little more low-key he'd have made it to the finals, too. Who knows?
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Author: EEBaum
Date: 2010-12-18 22:07
IMHO, if your audition is similar enough to the others that the panel will use a slightly flat G to axe you, it probably wasn't much to speak of in the first place.
-Alex
www.mostlydifferent.com
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Author: clarinet0509
Date: 2010-12-18 22:10
Alex, I understand where you're coming from, however, I'd be interested to know what you personally thought of the audition. I.E. some constructive feedback.
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Author: EEBaum
Date: 2010-12-18 22:41
It was a comment on donald's comment, not on your playing...
Your audition, I'd say, was decent. About middle-of-the-road. Stable, in tune, proficient. A well-prepared "good job." Like I hear about 75% of people play. But it's too safe for my liking. Take some risks!
I find myself playing in one of two modes at any given time... passive, or active. It's hard to describe what puts me in one mode or the other, but the difference in playing is dramatic. Maybe try some of these to get yourself in active mode:
- Play without the music in front of you, at least once in a while. Not for the "do you have it memorized?" aspect, but because the page can have unexpected effects on your playing. Higher notes being located "up," for example, and the visual effect of note spacing. Try to disconnect the visuals on the page from the tone-production mechanism, and treat them as instructions which you then expand on as you see fit.
- Play the piece of music as if you were improvising it. Try making each note feel like something you just came up with, and are intent on seeing what you can do with it next.
- Actively try to do something with each and every note/passage in the music. You might try to make it exciting, you might try to make it romantic, you might try to make it a mockery of the passage that just passed, you might try to make it as bland and stale as possible, etc. But there should always be some sense of purpose. If, at any time, you're just playing the notes in the specified rhythm with proper dynamics and articulations, the music dies. Ideally, do something a bit different each time.
If I know exactly how a performance will sound before I play it, in my opinion, it's not worth playing. Every moment should be an adventure in "what can I do with the next part," not "I hope the next part ends up how I planned" with fingers crossed.
Hope this helps
-Alex
www.mostlydifferent.com
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Author: donald
Date: 2010-12-19 01:40
In my experience weeding out the "wasn't much to speak of" candidates in an audition is the easy part and seldom requires attention to such small detail- but differentiating between candidates of a higher standard is when details such as a consistently flat note will provide an unnecessary excuse to have you eliminated from consideration. The flat G was by no means the only thing I heard that I could mention, but would be obvious to any well trained musician and can be easily fixed.
Other than this, I am in complete agreement with Alex.
dn
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Author: mrn
Date: 2010-12-19 17:35
Quote:
Hi guys I'm also a finalist (on clarinet) I would love some feedback, and if you like my video, please vote for me. Thanks!
One thing that I would suggest is that you pay closer attention to the vertical dimension of the music--i.e., how what you do interrelates to what the orchestra is doing. Here I'm primarily referring to the Mozart.
I realize you're playing unaccompanied, but you should really try to imagine what the orchestra is playing, both while you're playing and while you're resting. Your playing should reflect what the orchestra is doing--either from the standpoint of matching their style/articulations/phrasing or from the standpoint of "pulling away" from the orchestra when the music seems to require it. It's kind of difficult to explain verbally, but I think if you make a conscious effort to put your playing in the context of what the orchestra does, you'll see what I mean.
A couple of places where I thought you could have done better in this regard were the two C-natural entrances on the first page (bar 65 and bar 78). With the first one, it sounded like you didn't hold the whole note its full length, so you started the 16th note run early (I noticed a lot of other players seemed to do this, too). Also the little 16th note passages there are really decoration for the melody, which is actually in the strings, so I would try to make my phrasing match that of the strings there.
At bar 78, the clarinet comes in in a minor key after a couple of bars of "sneaky" staccato notes from the orchestra. I feel that your entrance at 78 lacked the crispness/definiteness that the string accompaniment seems to suggest there. Instead of coming in strong at the beginning of the bar, you crescendoed in a sort of "swell" attack. In my opinion that doesn't match what the string part would suggest you should do.
Moreover, 18th century phrasing is "beginning-oriented." In other words, musical phrases in this style start strong and taper off and depend on the locations of the bar lines and the notion of strong and weak beats in a bar. Additionally, there is no "local crescendo," so you don't crescendo in the middle of a phrase--crescendos are done in a step-wise fashion. The result of this is that the music has a certain characteristic "bounce" to it. Consequently, a "swell" entrance on a single note like you did in bar 78 is not really congruent with the 18th century style of Mozart's music, where local crescendo does not exist.
You should have a look at Tony Pay's article "Phrasing in Contention, " which is where I was first introduced to this aspect of 18th century style. If you listen to enough really good performances of music from that era, you'll get a feel for it, too, but I found that Tony's explanation was invaluable in understanding what makes this music tick. For me it was one of those "a-ha!" moments. You can find the article here:
http://www.woodwind.org/clarinet/Study/Phrasing.html.
Best of luck to you in the finals!
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Author: clarinet0509
Date: 2010-12-19 18:35
Thanks for the feedback, I will definitely check out that article! I'm totally with you, the "swell" that I do is an old habit, that does have it's uses, but probably not in Mozart.
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Author: EEBaum
Date: 2010-12-19 19:14
That all depends on whether you want to play with supposed historical accuracy. Of course, my take would be to try it that way, try it a few other ways, and make a conscious decision which you'll do when you play it.
-Alex
www.mostlydifferent.com
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Author: mrn
Date: 2010-12-22 18:15
EEBaum wrote:
> That all depends on whether you want to play with supposed
> historical accuracy.
Not necessarily. Considering historical performance practices is only a means to an end. The more you know about the style of music you're playing, the better able you are to make meaningful choices about how to play it, and oftentimes it helps you to discover new aspects of the music you might not have considered before. So it's far less about historical *accuracy* than it is about stylistic *context*.
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