 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: SHMbass
Date: 2010-12-10 15:38
I have been asking around and scouring the internet for articles relating to the opinions on the sound quality of different bass clarinets. By this I mean whether the instrument is stuffy, open voiced, dark, tinny etc. Surprisingly, there are not very many definitive articles stating how people individually feel about certain bass clarinets. There are a few articles that mention personal experiences with certain horns, but not a vast amount of them that truly define a persons experience with a bass. I am particularly curious as to the opinions on older wooden Leblanc bass clarinets; I have heard they are stuffy and very difficult to perform on, requiring a specific setup to sound half decent. Does anyone have some input on these instruments; whether they perform on them now or have played a couple notes on one in the past. Maybe someone has a good comparison to the old wooden Selmers and Buffets.
Someday we should form a sort of video collection of performances on all of the different companies' basses, so we have audio examples to base our selection of instruments from. Someday.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2010-12-10 16:24
With any clarinet, provided they've been given adequate venting by whoever's set them up, they'll play well and with very little stuffiness.
More often than not you'll find old Leblancs that have once belonged to schools or colleges have had a tough life and never given the attention or the money spent on repairing them that they deserve, so can be bought at a very good price and then worth having fully restored by a competent tech who understands they need good ventings to bring them to life.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: USFBassClarinet
Date: 2010-12-10 16:36
I can second what Chris P says. here at USF we have several old leblanc basses to low Eb. I haven't ever dated them but they are all in desperate need of care. The wood in them in beautiful, and they look like they would play well with some care, but I have never played one in good condition.
Instead of repairing the 5 old leblanc basses...they bought a new selmer to low C.
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2010-12-10 16:48
Is there any reason to believe that old Leblanc bass clarinets play any differently than new ones? I don't believe that Leblanc has materially changed the design of any of their bass clarinet models (including Noblet, Normandy and Vito lines), apart from cosmetic/labeling/marketing changes, in maybe half a century.
Larry Bocaner, who frequents this board, is the retired bass clarinetist of the Washington National Symphony and plays a low-C Leblanc --- he's certainly an advocate of these instruments.
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Author: USFBassClarinet
Date: 2010-12-10 20:13
According to LeBlanc they are in the process of redesigning them right now and are set to start coming out in 2011 sometime I believe. And I think the new Contras are suppose to be 2012.
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2010-12-11 02:40
That would be what company now, is it Conn-Selmer-Steinway-Leblanc-Buffet, something like that?
I wouldn't believe anything you hear. Perhaps Scott Kurzweil (no longer associated with that firm, I understand) could explain how recently they were advertising their "all new, improved professional-grade Leblanc 60" bass clarinet, which as far as I can tell is the 50-year-old Noblet design with a name change.
Personally, I'm not going to hold my breath waiting for any new Leblanc contras (and I mean actually new, not just relabeled or painted a different color). I prefer to hold my breath waiting for the new Fiat and Alfa Romeo automobiles that Fiat was supposed to start selling in the USA oh, about four or five years ago. We're still waiting..........
Be skeptical! Defy the Marketing Moguls! Make them prove what they say!
![[hot]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/hot.gif)
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Author: Chetclarinet
Date: 2010-12-11 13:31
I enjoyed playing with the Rochester Philharmonic and the Syracuse Symphony Orchestras during the late 1960's on a very good low C Leblanc bass clarinet with much success. The main problem I had was the response and sound of the third line b---I had too use on any occasions a side key instead of the register key to help the long b respond and play in tune. The low register of that older instrument is still the most robust and dark sounding of any bass clarinet I have performed on over the years.
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2010-12-11 13:59
I don't know what you consider "old," but I've played (though not owned) Leblanc basses dating from the 1950s. At that time, even their top of the line basses had a single register key, with the vent right at the top of the body.
For me, they were quite good, though they didn't have the color of Buffet or Selmer basses. However, they were easy to play, and the single register key made them very reliable. Particularly on the older Buffets, the triple register mechanism (throat Bb plus two register vents) constantly got out of adjustment.
There's great variability with older instruments, and most of them come from schools and leak like a sieve, so you have to figure in the price of an overhaul. They sell for less than old Buffets and Selmers and are a good value.
Ken Shaw
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2010-12-11 14:04
And an overhaul will still cost far less than a new pro Leblanc bass - low Eb or low C.
"Particularly on the older Buffets, the triple register mechanism (throat Bb plus two register vents) constantly got out of adjustment."
I never knew Buffet once used a triple vent mechanism - shame they didn't opt for a reliable version for their current (post-'99) Prestige basses as Oehler basses have.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
Post Edited (2010-12-11 14:05)
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2010-12-11 14:15
>> Particularly on the older Buffets, the triple register mechanism (throat Bb plus two register vents) constantly got out of adjustment. <<
What models and when did Buffet had a triple register mech on their basses? Any older Buffet I've seen (and I've seen one from most decades) and all the current ones have a double register key i.e. one for throat Bb and lower clarion, another for anything above. When did they change from triple to double? Or maybe you are confusing it and only meant double?
>> Someday we should form a sort of video collection of performances on all of the different companies' basses, so we have audio examples to base our selection of instruments from. <<
Some of my favorite players sound great on Selmers. Some players who are equally excellent, but I don't like at all, also play the same models of Selmers. So a sound sample like this wouldn't really help.
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Author: SHMbass
Date: 2010-12-11 14:57
Thanks for all of the input, it certainly helps to have a larger sample of opinions rather than one or two people who had a college or school bass that was in desperate need of repair. Clarnibass has a good point; everyone is going to play the same instrument differently, thereby sounding like completely different instruments. Is there something of a list somewhere of professional performers and their instruments they use, or is that common knowledge? I guess the solution to any bass difficulties (aside from setup) is to have the venting properly adjusted, and the instrument overhauled professionally. Certainly is much less expensive than purchasing a brand new low-c bass clarinet!
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Author: Dan Paprocki
Date: 2010-12-11 16:20
I had a Leblanc low C bass that was made in the late 50's. It was a very large bore horn and had no double register mechanism. Les Thimmig at UW-Madison had a Leblanc that was 2 digits off mine on the serial number. He told me that in the late 50's Leblanc experimented with a large bore bass and only made 10 or so instruments to see if players would like them. They didn't take off.
The horn had a nice low register but not as focused as my Selmer 33. I had the horn worked on by Bill Brannen so it was in fine shape. Since it didn't have the double register mechanism the middle B to D were pretty dangerous at loud dynamics. I did compare the bore diameter of the top pipe to a normal Leblanc that UW had and the difference in bore size was very noticeable.
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2010-12-11 16:46
By a triple register mechanism, I mean the standard setup with three vents controlled by the register key: throat Bb, clarion B up to Eb, and E and above. On my 1967 Buffet, it's a nightmare to adjust.
Actually, it would probably improve the bass to have a third register vent that changes over between G# and Ab, like a sax (or oboe), but it probably wouldn't stay in adjustment for more than a few seconds.
Ken Shaw
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2010-12-11 16:55
That's only two vents - throat Bb and lower clarion are vented with the lower vent (the large one on the body) and from E upwards it's the upper vent on the crook.
If it was a true triple vent mechanism, the middle vent will be open for upper E-G# and then the crook key opens for A upwards - though having the middle vent open for some altissimo notes (where LH3 is closed) might muck things up.
Does your buffet have a separate throat Bb vent plus two vents for the upper register?
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2010-12-12 05:36
>> By a triple register mechanism, I mean the standard setup with three vents controlled by the register key: throat Bb, clarion B up to Eb, and E and above. On my 1967 Buffet, it's a nightmare to adjust. <<
This is not the standard setup. With the exception of models with two seperate register key levers, the standard on all current French pro models is, as Chris says, a double register key where the lower/body one acts as both the throat Bb tone hole and the register key from B to D#. If your 1967 Buffet is not like this, and has an additional seperate tone hole for throat Bb, it is not standard at all. Buffets from 60s I've seen had the standard setup of two vents.
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Author: LarryBocaner ★2017
Date: 2010-12-12 13:57
I've played professionally on a early-60's vintage low-C Leblanc 500 series bass clarinet for almost 50 years. I originally bought it just to have the extended range, when needed, and to continue to do the bulk of my playing on my (then) 10 year old Buffet. However the superior intonation and projection of the Leblanc led me to abandon the low-Eb instrument altogether.
The stuffy long B issue that Chet describes was solved by the addition of a second register key, operating the Bb vent, made for me by Leblanc. This "panic button" provides a resonant and in-tune long B -- also makes possible playing third-line Bb in the second register.
The instrument has been serviced by Hans Moennig (under protest), Paul Covey and Bill Brannen -- most recently by Tony Valenti. Still plays like a dream! Buffet and Selmer have made huge strides in the quality of their bass clarinets in recent years, but I still like the sound and musicality of my ancient Leblanc. Over the years I've tried other Leblanc basses (they abandoned the 500 series) and found them to lack the quality of warmth that mine has.
Larry Bocaner
National Symphony, Washington (retired)
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Author: super20dan
Date: 2024-01-19 01:57
so is the difference between the leblanc 400 and 500 just the fork eb mechanisms? they look the same otherwise to me
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2024-01-19 04:22
The Leblanc 500 had a much larger bore (in fact, the largest of any production bass clarinet I'm aware of), a bit over 1.0" compared to the more usual .935" of the rest of the Leblanc/Noblet/Vito line.
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Author: super20dan
Date: 2024-01-20 04:15
thanks dave -just the person to ask. i think the fork eb is a good idea
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