 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: sonicbang
Date: 2010-12-04 09:29
A colleague of mine has an interesting problem. She has outstanding technical abilities, but one or two years ago her sound started to be much darker than before. Nowdays the sound is dampened or almost 'dead'. Her sound was always darker than the average but it was alive and fexible and rich. The setup is the same for many years. What can be the problem?
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Author: kdk ★2017
Date: 2010-12-04 14:50
Has she changed reeds? Using "dark" to describe this can be very misleading, which is why from time to time we get into such contentious discussions about the terms "bright" and "dark." Dull or "dead" are not generally considered good traits in a clarinet sound by anyone (except for occasional special musical effects). Something isn't vibrating optimally.
I'll assume she isn't blowing into a really leaky clarinet. Either she's using more and more unresponsive reeds because she's trying to get a feel of resistance that's turning out to be counterproductive, or she's contorting something in her embouchure that isn't allowing the reed to vibrate efficiently. She may have for some reason begun biting harder and has been using stiffer reeds to prevent closing them off instead of trying to get the result she wants without so much pressure.
Karl
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Author: Bob Phillips
Date: 2010-12-04 16:18
Have her try different mouthpieces.
A different set-up could give temporary relief if it is her playing character that is determining her timbre.
Bob Phillips
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Author: sonicbang
Date: 2010-12-04 16:41
She's is not playing on a leaking clarinet. Setup is Vd B45 Lyre with Vd trad 3 for at least for 8 years. Its obvious there is no problem with the equipement. I tried it and it works well. Her embochure lookas like the same (from outside at least).
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2010-12-04 20:33
That's an interesting problem. You didn't say how old she is so I might be thinking if she's young something might have changed physically. Perhaps her lower lip has gotten thicker and she's "dampening" the reed now by placing too much lower lip on the reed, more than before. Aside from that I can't think of a single reason that should have changed if the equipment hasn't changed. The B45 tends to be on the dark side so I would suggest having her try some different mouthpiece. Vandoren makes plenty that tend to be the opposite of what she's experiencing. That way she will at least know if she has a problem that can't be corrected by equipment or it's something she has to over come, which might not be easy to identify. ESP http://eddiesclarinet.com
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Author: sonicbang
Date: 2010-12-05 09:34
I haven't tried all the Vandoren mouthpieces. If you consider the B45 as a dark sounding place what type has brighter sound? BTW she's 22.
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Author: Gretchen
Date: 2010-12-05 14:55
Has she used the same actual mouthpiece for that long? Depending on wear and tear, some can warp, and change over a few years. Perhaps she just needs to try some new B45 Lyres and see if the problem goes away?
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2010-12-05 15:12
Any mouthpiece can wear out or get dinged. If your colleague wants to experiment, she might try the Vandoren 5RV Lyre, which is a middle-of-the-road design.
But remember that everyone makes his/her own sound.
Is this your colleague's problem or your problem? Did she ask you for help?
An embouchure change can certainly make her tone brighter. Have her point her chin, stretch the area between her chin and her lower lit tight and put only half of the red part of her lower lip over her teeth. Her lower teeth should be directly below the point that the reed departs from the mouthpiece.
A custom mouthpiece and barrel can add "ping" to the sound.
Keith Stein taught a great exercise for adding color to the sound. For my description and Ed Palanker's addition, see http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/read.html?f=1&i=320043&t=319992
Ken Shaw
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Author: sonicbang
Date: 2010-12-05 20:38
A new B45 didn't make noticable change, so it's not because of warping. By the way when I tried she's setup, I found everything ok.
She knows too that something is not as good as it used to be. Yes, it is more or less my problem too, because we play at the same clarinet quartet and same symphonic orchestra of the university.
If it were an embochure problem, I would be surprised. As far as I know she's playing the clarinet more than 17 years.
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Author: kdk ★2017
Date: 2010-12-05 20:53
All you're really leaving is some physical change in her oral/respiratory system. Has she seen a doctor - preferably an ENT specialist?
Karl
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2010-12-06 02:11
Well even though some players get a darker tone with a "bright" mouthpiece and visa vera I would suggest having her try the Vandoren 13 and 15s, especially the 15s. If she still gets a very "dark" tone it's probably something about the way she is and it's "her" sound. Then it will be a matter of finding the right combination of reed and ligature. She might experiment with how her lower lip is placed and experiment a bit with taking more or less lip over her teeth. ESP
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Author: cigleris
Date: 2010-12-06 06:09
Perhaps it's none of these. Perhaps she is just going through a natural change in her playing. I believe with all do at some point as we evolve as musicians. As long as there are still harmonics in the sound and the reed is vibrating she should just continue as she has done.
Peter Cigleris
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2010-12-06 06:31
How regularly does she have her clarinet serviced?
Even if there are no leaks, the toneholes could be occluded (usually a mixture of dust, fibres and grease that builds up over time) where they meet the bore, so take the throat G# and A keys off to have a good look in there. This kind of build-up is cleaned out during a service which should be carried out on a regular basis.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: skygardener
Date: 2010-12-06 10:34
Have there been any changes to her???
Has she gained or lost weight?
Is she practicing more or less than before???
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Author: sonicbang
Date: 2010-12-06 21:19
As far as I know she keeps her clarinet clean. The problem is not only with throat tones. She practises around 2-5 hours a day, I do not know exactly. Yes, she pbbobably lost some weight, but it would be hard to say how much.
You know it's not a kind of thing we like to ask from a female human being unless we are armed heavily.
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2010-12-06 21:26
Continuing my comment, you can brighten your tone by pulling your lower lip out so that only about 1/4 of it is over your teeth. I do that when I have the melody that passes through the throat tone area, to make it audible. Many teachers recommend this for orchestral solos.
Ken Shaw
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2010-12-07 06:06
Even though she may be keeping her clarinet clean, toneholes can still get blocked. I recently worked on a clarinet which was kept meticulously clean, though as toneholes are inaccessble unless keys are removed, the throat note toneholes were occluded. If you can take the throat G# and A keys off, then do that and have a look in them to see if they're getting blocked.
Check all the other tonehole chimneys - especially where they meet the bore to see if there's any foreign matter in them.
How regularly does she have her clarinet serviced?
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: pinky
Date: 2010-12-07 09:11
Just because her setup works for you, doesn't mean that a change wouldn't help her. Everyone finds a different setup that works them, and these things can change over time. Many players find they gravitate towards evolving setups throughout there careers
I would possibly try a Vandoren B40 or B40 lyre mouthpiece, I use a B4013 with a Vandoren 3 to 3 1/2) I find a lot more ring in them than any other Vandoren mouthpiece, sort of like a Selmer C85 120.
I would also focusing on these concepts on a technical level
1. relaxing and thinking forward with the lower lip that comes in contact with the reed (having support from the sides of the lips)
2. having a firm but not tight 'outer' embouchure
3. providing plenty of smooth strong air support.
I find focusing on these concepts helps my sound to 'resonate'. I hope I explained the concepts clearly!
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Author: pinky
Date: 2010-12-07 09:19
BTW i don't see how weight can effect sound. Physical fitness and lung capacity, maybe, but weight - I don't think so
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Author: skygardener
Date: 2010-12-07 09:55
Let's say (hypothetically) that the person in question was overweight a few years ago and had a certain sound. Then they started an exercise program and lost some weight and got stronger. The fat in their mid-section is not there anymore, and the muscles that supported the air flow are firmer... so the whole area moves differently than before.
THAT is how weight affects sound.
I am asking that because everyone had asked about everything except the person.
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