 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: CarlT
Date: 2010-12-03 21:08
You'd think after over 2 years one shouldn't have trouble with throat F#, and most of the time I don't, but after playing for awhile and the old embouchure is getting tired, I do sometimes squeak on this note, especially in fast passages.
I have a hard time balancing the clarinet with only my right thumb and embouchure, without the aid of other fingers for support.
Do you more advanced players have any suggestions as to how I can remedy this situation, or should I just continue to strengthen my lips and emb. in general? This is a real impediment for my clarinet progress.
Oh, guess what the second hardest note for me is (at least when tired)...it's throat F.
CarlT
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Author: kdk
Date: 2010-12-03 21:55
Are you playing single lip or double lip?
Karl
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Author: JJAlbrecht
Date: 2010-12-03 22:24
By this stage,these notes should not be so problematic. You might consider adding a neck strap to your setup,which will reduce some of the stress for holding your clarinet solely with the right thumb.
Jeff
“Everyone discovers their own way of destroying themselves, and some people choose the clarinet.” Kalman Opperman, 1919-2010
"A drummer is a musician's best friend."
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Author: CarlT
Date: 2010-12-04 00:54
kdk asked: "Are you playing single lip or double lip?"
Single lip.
Jeff, I do fairly well most of the time. I do own a neck strap, but I have never been able to use it very well. It seems to do more harm to me than benefit me.
I play in a local town band, and I hardly ever squeak when playing with them, but when I am practicing, especially fast measures, and usually after I start to tire, I will squeak some on F#'s and F's.
My question still is, should the embouchure itself be able to "stabilize" the clarinet when only the right thumb is holding the clarinet?
Also, if that's true, then how's the best way of achieving that...by playing long notes everyday, or what else would you all suggest?
CarlT
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Author: Connor
Date: 2010-12-04 01:46
Try adding the left hand Ab/Eb key. When you do this, use your pinky ever so slightly to push the clarinet toward your body. What this will do is put a tiny amount of pressure against your top teeth from the mouthpiece. This will give you a little more stability and balance minimizing the gyrations created from moving your fingers about the clarinet.
I would recommend making some exercises that you could practice for 3-5 minutes every day that would focus on intervals and scale passages ascending and descending to throat F#. The key to doing this is moving your fingers with the greatest efficiency and elegance possible so you eliminate any "bumps" in your technique that would cause you to squeak.
MM. Clarinet Performance University of Texas at Austin (2012).
BM. Clarinet Performance University of Northern Colorado (2010).
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Author: kdk
Date: 2010-12-04 03:21
Another couple of questions: does the squeaking happen more when you ascend to F or F-sharp from a note with more fingers or when you're descending from A, A-flat or G? Can you eliminate the problem by holding the bell on or between your knees to steady it?
Karl
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Author: CarlT
Date: 2010-12-04 03:22
Conner, did you mean the right hand Ab/Eb key? I don't think I have a left hand Ab/Eb key on my clarinet. What am I missing here?
CarlT
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Author: CarlT
Date: 2010-12-04 03:29
kdk, I just tried one measure ascending, and then one descending. It appears to be harder in descending, but even ascending is a bit difficult when I am tired.
I suppose it would be more stable with the clarinet on/between the knees; however, if I do that, I really mess up as I usually play with the clarinet at a higher angle, or else I would have to bend my head lower to compensate, and I'm afraid that would cause other problems (i.e., throat closing up, etc.).
CarlT
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Author: Connor
Date: 2010-12-04 07:44
oops! Rh Ab/Eb key!
So sorry!
MM. Clarinet Performance University of Texas at Austin (2012).
BM. Clarinet Performance University of Northern Colorado (2010).
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2010-12-04 13:14
Try pulling the clarinet in toward your body so that it's closer to vertical. This brings the strength of your right thumb into play and keeps the instrument from wobbling.
Ken Shaw
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Author: kdk
Date: 2010-12-04 14:33
I didn't mean to rest the clarinet on your knee as a permanent solution - just a diagnostic to try to narrow the problem. Squeaks can be caused either by abrupt (however small) mouthpiece-embouchure shifts or clinching the embouchure to grip the clarinet when it feels unstable. But they can also be caused when a finger slightly misses its target hole, which is very possible around the throat notes, especially when the squeaks happen when you put a finger (or thumb) *down* (it's not likely to be a cause when the squeak happens when you *lift* a finger or it happens during a sustained tone).
If the problem is caused by a slight shift in the position of the mouthpiece in your mouth, it should stop when you steady the clarinet in some way - e.g. resting the bell on or between your knees. If it's caused by momentarily biting harder to steady the mouthpiece, resting the bell will help but not eliminate the problem because you have built a reflexive habit that will probably still persist. A neckstrap, by the way, (I know you tried one and didn't like it) doesn't do much to steady the mouthpiece from wobbling side to side, but it can keep it from pulling downward out of your mouth.
The ultimate solution to the squeaking, if it isn't caused by fingers missing their targets, is to control the clarinet between your right thumb and your embouchure muscles and tendons (the ones around your mouth, not the ones that control your jaw). But it can help to both narrow the problem down to its base and also get an experience of how the system feels when it's steady. Then you have a better idea of what you may need to do to get the same effect if you remove the crutch of resting the bell on something.
As an aside (echoing Ken), you may find that learning to play with the clarinet closer to you helps this by giving you better control with your thumb and may actually solve other problems you didn't know you were having.
Karl
Post Edited (2010-12-04 14:36)
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Author: CarlT
Date: 2010-12-04 14:47
Thanks, Ken. I have done just that in the past (tried playing with the clarinet more vertical), but I seem to always go back to the Clarinet less vertical. I will work on that though, as what you are saying makes a lot of sense to me.
I have an overbite, so one would think that the more vertical position would be easier for me than the less vertical that I now use; however, as I say, I will make a concerted effort to do just that.
Conner: Thanks for clearing that up, and I will certainly try using the Ab/Eb key to assist the F# and the F. It will be interesting to check my tuner to see if there is any change in intonation using the Ab/Eb key. I tried it without the tuner, and everything seemed to be fine, as I could not detect any change of intonation.
A combination of the above suggestions should really help me with these notes.
CarlT
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Author: gsurosey
Date: 2010-12-06 16:13
One thing I have a tendency to do is put LH3 down (covering the C hole) when I'm in the throat tone area (the Ab/A/Bb keys, not so much the others). I'm not sure when I started doing this, but it helps me balance my clarinet out (I have tendinitis issues in my RH/wrist - ditched the neckstrap since it was making my LH position squirrelly and not really helping RH fatigue much if at all). I think I may have started this playing heavier instruments (bass clarinet/alto sax). Come to think of it, I'm not sure if I do it on sax or not. Time to investigate...
Rachel
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Author: gsurosey
Date: 2010-12-06 16:15
This may be obvious and/or a dumb question, but I'm going to ask anyway. You say this happens when you get tired. Is there a chance that you're not covering up the holes all the way? Perhaps your technique gets sloppy after awhile?
Just for the heck of it, have your pads checked, too.
Rachel
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2010-12-06 16:19
Rachel, on most saxes you can play open C# with LH3 and the 8ve key held down (8ve oox|ooo), or as 8ve oox|xxx so you only need to lift and raise LH 1 and 2 to go from C# to D instead of all fingers off-all fingers on (unless you're using the high Eb key for the D). It gives a much better tuned C# next to the upper register D as well.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2010-12-07 15:33
I would check for leakage for the F#. Three possibilities:
1. ring too high; pad closes first and finger doesn't seal.
2. ring too low; finger seals but pad is still not completely closed
3. pad is messed up and leaks - see technician
Also there is a another F#: thumb, plus RH index finger on the last two sidekeys.
As for the stability issue. You should be ok even with double lip if you "snug up" as suggested in the Tom Ridneour videos on YOUTUBE.
..................Paul Aviles
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Author: claritoot26
Date: 2010-12-08 04:25
there is a good left-hand etude in Complete Method for Clarinet by Gustave Langenus, Vol. 3 I think. It's four pages long, so at this point you may want to just work the first page in small sections, slowly, concentrating on very smooth finger motions so the clarinet doesn't "bounce". The embouchure should be firm enough to keep the clarinet balanced on the right thumb when you remove the thumb or fingers of the left hand. I think of the embouchure like a drawstring bag, or a rubber band, so that even pressure is applied all around the mouthpiece. Kind of like slurping a thick milkshake through a straw. Yes, long tones and twelfths in addition to scales and longer phrases of music are good ways to develop that strength. Good luck
Lori
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