 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Aussie Nick
Date: 2001-01-04 04:28
G'day everyone. When I finish practices every day ( usually about 2 or 3 hours in length), my thumb is always a mess. It hurts alot, gets very red and I have to click it back into place properly. I have a thumbrest, but its a pretty weak excuse for a thumbrest It's just one of those little back rubber things that slides on and doesn't really help alot at all. What other brands are popular that I should maybe consider looking into. My teacher has quite a good one but he is in Germany right now performing with orchestras over there. I'll ask him when he gets back, but in the meantime does anyone else have any suggestions?
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2001-01-04 08:19
Get a ring silver-soldered onto your thumb rest so you can hook up to a neck strap.
It should take a repair tech about 15 min if he has suitable cupronickel or sterling silver wire in stock.
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Author: Dee
Date: 2001-01-04 09:42
Your problem sounds serious enough that you ought to use a neck strap as Gordon suggests. Also break your practice down into sessions or at least take a break every so often. You can use the break to examine and study the music.
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Author: deebee
Date: 2001-01-04 11:00
Aussie Nick -
have you seen (Sydney player) Deborah de Graaff's
elaborate clarinet-holding rig? Worth chasing up.
regards - deebee
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Author: Aussie Nick
Date: 2001-01-04 11:57
Yeah I think I'll have a look around for a good neck strap, but I still would like something good for my thumb. Deebee, nah I am not familiar with Sydney clarinettists...only Frank Celata and ummm..whats the name of the principal clarinet of Sydney Symphony? Well whoever he is, I know him...lol. I met them both when I was alst down there, and Frank has come up to Queensland before. I am mainly familiar with the Queensland players eg. Paul Dean, Brain Catchlove, Kate Travers, Nick Murphy..... anyway, I'm blabbering now...whats my point..I've forgotten now but I did have one.....lol.
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Author: deebee
Date: 2001-01-04 12:22
Queensland......hmmm.......
Speak to Philippa Robinson (clarinettist in
Brisbane-based Perihelion) about D de G's holder -
I'm pretty sure she knows about it.
deebee
[ps - P R is also very cluey about Aussie repertoire]
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Author: Anji
Date: 2001-01-04 12:44
Jeezit Nick!
This is a very serious problem you are developing. Early in my training I suffered so much from wrist strain that I was forced to leave the horn for 6 weeks! I am most sympathetic to this painful and frustrating problem.
If you are forcibly relocating your thumb, you are well on your way to a career threatening injury. I'm not being an alarmist, this is bad news.
The main need, now, is to lay off for at least a week. I recommend seeing a massage therapist to help you recover from what is likely tendonitis.
******
The cheapest solution is the claricord elastic strap. I used, it liked it and got relief from it.
I settled on the Ton Kooiman thumbrest, which I now use my horns. This thing allows me to play with less tension in my right hand, and has led to much faster playing, with greater fluidity.
All of their TK designs place the weight of the horn closer to the proximal joint of the thumb, greatly reducing the tendency toward strain in the right hand. They also add about 1.5cm of diameter to the horn, so the hand need not be so constrained.
It is very expensive, but this thing is worth the money.
******
My teacher uses a "Ring and strap" apparatus as described above and she plays at a professional level. This was a retrofit installed by the local woodwind repair shop. It is easily reversible, should you seek to sell your horn.
The Claricord is not the best gizmo, but it is cheap and requires no modification of the horn. It just slides over the thumbrest with a leather strap.
For a short term fix, try some soft pads available at the drugggist or apothecary for bunions (no kidding). The pink pads are cheap, and can be cut to any shape desired. They have adhesive on the back to attach to the contact point of the thumbrest.
I hope you get some relief, this is a nightmare if untreated.
anji
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Author: Ken Shaw
Date: 2001-01-04 17:46
Nick -
An easy intermediate solution is a thicker cushion over the thumbrest. I went to a Surgical Supply store (sometimes called a Medical Equipment store) and got a couple of feet of surgical tubing. It's silicone rather than rubber, so it doesn't deteriorate.
It's a light brownish yellow color, about 3/8" diameter outside and maybe 3/16" inside. Cut off about 3/4", put a drop or two of water or saliva inside, and work it over the thumb rest. This lasts a couple of years for me, and I'm still working on my original purchase.
Best regards.
Ken Shaw
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Author: THE Big J
Date: 2001-01-04 19:15
I second Ken... that's what I use for my clarinet. If I don't, then my thumb starts to hurt and it affects how I play. Well good luck! And hope your thumb feels better.
-Jeanie
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Author: Willie
Date: 2001-01-04 21:08
Come on Nick, wear yer "clarinet dent" like a man with pride. Mine was so well established that as far as 10 years into the military other clarinetists still recognized it started up a yak session.
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Author: Dee
Date: 2001-01-04 22:26
Willie wrote:
>
> Come on Nick, wear yer "clarinet dent" like a man with
> pride. Mine was so well established that as far as 10 years
> into the military other clarinetists still recognized it
> started up a yak session.
I do hope you were joking. The potential damage to the thumb/hand/wrist etc can be very serious. If a person is having problems, they should never be advised to put up with it.
The thumb is not designed to support any weight at all, the fact that many people can successfully support the clarinet is simply a happy coincidence. As an engineer, if I were ever to design a support structure similar to the thumb, I would be laughed out of the office.
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Author: mw
Date: 2001-01-05 00:35
OTTOMH, isn't it the Jupiter Adjustable Thumbrest that comes with predrilled with a hole for use with a neckstrap? This would seem to be a good choice, as it would be adjustable for hand position and (partially) weight-supported at once. mw
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Author: Willie
Date: 2001-01-05 00:49
To Dee. Yes, I was just kidding, but I did have that dent for over 10yrs after school as I played on average about 3hrs a day. If there was a cushion in those days, none of us were ever told about it.
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Author: Dee
Date: 2001-01-05 02:13
Willie wrote:
>
> To Dee. Yes, I was just kidding, but I did have that dent
> for over 10yrs after school as I played on average about 3hrs a
> day. If there was a cushion in those days, none of us were ever
> told about it.
I was pretty sure you were but just wanted to make sure that the other people reading the board realized that. I know what you mean about the dent though. I never had one from my clarinet but I certainly had a major callous from gripping my pen too tight during my school years. Even today, 27 years after college graduation it is still slightly visible.
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Author: Ken Rasmussen
Date: 2001-01-05 03:59
I'd like to emphasize the danger of ANY overuse injury. You'd really rather break a leg. You run the risk of not being able to play anymore at all. You also run a risk of not being able to use you arm for much. This kind of injury is potentially permanent and crippling. The important of recognizing and addressing the problem swiftly and correctly can't be overemphasized. Having your thumb removed completely is scarcely more serious!
I also use a Kooiman thumb rest and love it. I used a strap, but it didn't help me as much as it might have, partly because my thumbrest was too low at that time. I routinely have my thumbrests mounted so my thumb and forefinger are directly opposite. Then I glue 3/8" of cork to the thumbrest and file a contour to fit my thumb correctly. (I do this on my bass and on my Eb clarinet. My soprano gets the Kooiman rest. Getting a bass is nice because the horn can rest on the floor peg, which is the most comfortable of all!)
Good luck with your injury. Ice is very helpful in controlling inflammation. After the inflammation subsides alternate hot and cold treatments, finishing with cold. You need to change your method to eliminate the strain. This can't go on!!!!
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2001-01-05 14:09
This is another fine discussion of a recurring problem to add to the archives. As before, my simple-minded solution [for all of my horns] which I discuss with all students and with some more-advanced players considering an adjustable TR, is to invert the usual TR , raising its level about 1/4 - 1/2 inch [for a better "pinch" action] to see if that helps cure fatigue. I still suggest trying it. Don
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Author: Rissa
Date: 2001-01-05 17:58
I've found that a simple pencil grip works great for those who play alot, but break up their practice times.....you can order some apparatus that looks like a pencil grip from Muncy and places, called Thumbelz or something, but it's much cheaper to just buy a pack from K-Mart or some cheap store! They work great, especially in Marching season! You can use em 2 different ways, just pop em on, and either fold it over, or cut it off right at the end of your thumbrest!
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Author: mary
Date: 2001-01-06 02:35
If your height works for this, you can also balance the clarinet on your knee while practicing. but watch the tendinitis. I didn't get mine from playing, but I had to take over a year off from playing. 8 years later, I'm fine but always careful...
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Author: Andy
Date: 2001-01-06 04:11
Nick,
As Deebee said, D. de Graaf's thing is amazing. I will send you her contact details. the contrapation she uses pokes into her stomach and is also used like a strap. it looks a little restrictive, but she still sounds great.
I used a pair of braces for a while that were altered so that hooked on to the back of my trousers and then all the weight of the clarinet was taken litterally by my trousers. (A good belt is a great idea to go with this idea). Otherwise the kooniman thumb rest also seems to be popular in canberra and Melbourne.
Aussie Aussie Aussie,
Oy Oy Oy
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2001-01-06 15:13
1. Padding the thumb rest with this and that will not help because the problem is the sideways weight on the thumb joints.
2. The best location of a (normal type) thumb rest depends on many factors such as (upper) arm length, neck length, finger and thumb lengths, and hand shape.
3. Often adding thick material to a thumb rest will make the problem worse by lowering the thumb position.
4. Most people with adjustable thumb rests finish up with them in the extreme (up)postion so they are just an expensive nuisance that for some models tends to hit and bend the 'bridge' key.
5. Many clarinets have the thumb rest in an inappropriately low position for most people.
6. Thumb rests can be relocated by a good repair technician. Don't attempt it yourself; the new holes need to be threaded with a special tap.
7. If the thumb rest is turned upside down (as has been suggested) then the ball of the thumb is on the base of the thumb rest and screw, and is uncomfortable.
Dee is quite correct: "The thumb is not designed to support any weight at all....."
Anji's warning should be taken seriously.
Whatever you do, get the weight off the SIDE of the thumb.
As an immediate measure the weight can be taken off the side of the thumb by playing with the clarinet close to horizontal; try sitting in a recliner chair!
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Author: Robin
Date: 2001-01-07 00:33
Yet another person very impressed with Deborah's contraption. If this problem persists, I really would recommend flying down to Sydney (On Virgin or Impulse of course) and seeing Deborah. She's just full of wonderful advice which goes to the start of these matters - breathing, posture/positioning. On top of this, she's a very fine player and a very nice person. You're on holi's now. Why not? Last year, me, Andy (above), and another Melbournite went to the Sydney Clarinet Festival and had a ball. I think Deborah's going again this year as well.
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Author: Rene
Date: 2001-01-07 11:49
I had problems with my thumb as well. To be precise, the tendon that goes down the arm on the left upper side of the hand did hurt at the point where it crosses under the wrist. This is serious!
Besides all measures described here, I found that the problem can be relieved by turning the lower hand a bit more upwards, which does also make it easier to reach the keys with the little finger (while the fingers are NOT straight). The effect is that the weight is not perpenticular to the thumb nail, but rather carried by the flesh opposing the nail. The effect is that the muscles of the thumb on the inner hand side are used to carry the clarinet.
Rene
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Author: Deborah de Graaff
Date: 2001-01-08 11:07
great to see all this interest and good information being shared on the net
As my name has come up several times .. thought that I would drop in from down under and tell my bit of it all
I have played with a harness for just under 20 years
i damaged my hands after frantic practice for three years on the francaix for several competitions
the compeititions went fine .. but I damaged my hands for all time and stopped playing completely for 2 years.
I was the subject of clinical study for a couple of years ... joy oh bliss...
With Alexander TTechnique and my harness (developed after many other prototypes) and changed hand posture i have played professionally for 18 years
The harness is a neckstrap arrangement but there is a waist band of metal tube that gently rests on the hips .. no probs with breathing and a have no problems leading in my chamber music ensemble.
ku-ring-gai Virtuosi www.bioconnect.com/kv/
A friend in Sydney has built over 500 harnesses .. most of which are in use
they are being made to order still
A few measurements are necessary.
i will ask Trish Neil to email her address in for any interested players
increadibly useful for littlies to avoid those posture problems and as I mentioned I still use mine all the time
20 years with no more problems ... Francaix is easier than ever but i would not be her playing if it were not for the harness, a lot of good friends and an open mind
ps My latest Aus CD now out called ULPIRRA on Walsingham Classics Label ..
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