 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2010-11-30 20:12
That was awesome. Almost every oboe player I've heard has (well, honestly) stunk. I'm lucky to be at a band with a very very good player, and I believe it's rare enough to find a truly good oboe player, let alone see someone like this! A great oboe player in the making! Thanks Ken!
Alexi
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2010-11-30 20:19
You must be hanging around the wrong crowd, Alexi. I've been honored to play in some local orchestras and wind ensembles here in the DC area with some really fine oboists. It's a tough horn to play well, I've been fighting the little conical beast myself for the past couple of years.
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2010-12-01 01:02
It most definitely has been the wrong crowd. People who joined the army and then said, "Hey, I've got a contract. They can't kick me out. Why practice?" Wrong answer. Glad that the standards are rising for Army Musicians. Now they won't even ACCEPT oboe players unless they are at the level they want our E7's at.
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Author: JJAlbrecht
Date: 2010-12-01 01:27
Our band has one excellent oboist and one who, well......
Definition of a minor second: Two oboes in perfect unison. 
Jeff
“Everyone discovers their own way of destroying themselves, and some people choose the clarinet.” Kalman Opperman, 1919-2010
"A drummer is a musician's best friend."
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2010-12-01 05:52
Blimey! She puts a lot of players (including myself) to shame.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Barry Vincent
Date: 2010-12-01 08:28
What is it with some of these Asian (Chinese/Korean/Japanese) children. They are so dedicated. It must be a Parent / Child thing. They seem to work so conscientiously on anything they set their minds to. There's a rumour going around that in the near future the Asians will be the new world leaders.
Skyfacer
Post Edited (2010-12-01 08:29)
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Author: skygardener
Date: 2010-12-01 09:40
"What is it with some of these Asian (Chinese/Korean/Japanese) children."
From my location maybe I can drop my 2 yen.
First, the amazing ones like this are still the minority- her ability is by no means "average".
Second, there is the aspect of money (as discussed in another thread). These kids that become prodigies are always from rather well-off backgrounds; upper middle class, at least. Their parents buy them good quality instruments, brand new, so that aspect of finance that we deal with ("learn to play it", "make it work") in the west is never an issue for them. This girl is not playing the school oboe that is older than her. Their instruments are never out of regulation because they always have the money for repair, more reeds, new mouthpieces, etc.
Again with the money, they are given lessons with good teachers- often orchestra players or professors of good conservatories. These parents generally try to find the best teacher in their area (sometimes out of their area), not just whoever "happens to be" the teacher in the closest music store. I met a young Japanese cellist that was in junior high school that was not from Tokyo, but she took the bullet train twice/month (about 2 hour travel one way) to Tokyo to have a lesson. That round trip ticket alone cost about $150 each time... and her cello was worth about $200,000.
Additionally, the kids have a space to practice- this is the most important thing. Although one can say that "practice is free so anyone can get better", this is not totally true. Anyone that has lived in an apartment building with "noise rules" knows that they are not allowed to practice EVER in some apartments.
So these kids are give the best tools for the craft. This makes a huge difference in the potential that they are able to realize.
Post Edited (2010-12-01 09:44)
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2010-12-01 09:49
There was mention of how S.Korean parents will buy their children pro model instruments in Howarth's 50th anniversary booklet published back in 1998 - not only did they did they buy top model oboes (Howarth XL), they often went for ones with cocobolo bodies and gold plated keywork which is about as expensive as you can get. So they start them out as they mean to go on.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2010-12-01 11:20
Skygardener - we have these folks here too, I mean the above-average-well-off who can afford Toscas and St.Louises for their kids. Who have the money to afford regular service, a dedicated music room in their house, a competent teacher and so on. Who have the time on their hands to shuttle their kids to and fro if need be and so on.
But that alone is not a guarantee for success, nor is relative poverty the key to failure.
--
Ben
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Author: skygardener
Date: 2010-12-01 12:06
"But that alone is not a guarantee for success, nor is relative poverty the key to failure."
Did I say that it was?
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Author: L. Omar Henderson
Date: 2010-12-01 12:55
Read the book "Outliers" by Malcolm Gladwell. 10,000 hours of concentrated and purposeful practice will make any of us world class players.
Another book to ponder - "Talent is overrated" by Geoff Colvin
L. Omar Henderson
www.doctorsprod.com
Post Edited (2010-12-01 16:35)
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2010-12-01 16:18
Quote:
"But that alone is not a guarantee for success, nor is relative poverty the key to failure."
Did I say that it was?
No, you just wrote
Quote:
So these kids are give the best tools for the craft. This makes a huge difference in the potential that they are able to realize.
so I felt the urge to yarn that thread a bit further, because one might infer that optimal circumstances are the key to success - which they aren't necessarily, even when one can safely assume that favourable situations are beneficial.
--
Ben
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Author: mlz
Date: 2010-12-02 01:32
Its not just with music. Tutoring and long hours at any academic subject are not unusual, the kids of the Asian family who owns the Chinese takeout here
are in the restaurant either working or getting tutored and not because they need it any more than our kids, homework comes first before anything else absolutely. They will have that edge over many kids when they graduate high school. They put their money into education more than buying a house or other things. I recently worked with someone raised in Korea, got her masters in math here, and her memory skills at everything surpassed ours because she was used to it from her long school days.
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Author: Barry Vincent
Date: 2010-12-02 01:39
I actually have a young (11 yo) chinese girl learning flute with me and I'm putting her through 4th grade (AMEB) It is noticable that she has a conscientious attitude and seems to soak up everything that I tell her. There is a genuine attitude , no half heartedness here. Another thing I've notice which I find fascinating is that she's constantly using her own intuitive whereas I will give some instruction concerning, say a sight reading problem and she will carry it futher. For example , having helped her solve a certain sight reading detail, she will then open the tutor to some other page and ask me to help her with that as well. I can't seem to give her too much material to work on. When I tell her that certain material is to be practiced on and then presented at the next weekly lesson it is done. I've quickly learnt not to underestimate her. And her mother who brings her to lessons is constantly expecting details of progress. Oh yes . and she has a top of the range Yamaha flute. Yes , I have other students with good attitudes also but this youngster's attitude has a special 'edge' to it . A vibrant attention span that last right through the lesson.
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Author: DaveF
Date: 2010-12-02 06:02
Check out this trumpeter, age 10 in this video from last year. Daughter of the principal trumpet in my community orchestra. So she's an all-American girl from the Seattle area, although Mom does have an Asian background. She studies with Dad (who's a local band director), and has been been winning the National Trumpet Competition Junior Division (up to age 15) at age 9, 10, and again this year at 11. Sweet, humble kid. She's easily developed air support and flow to get a big enough sound, and plays like she's a 19 year old conservatory student. Enjoy the Aritiunian Concerto:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9FrIdIoxK8E
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Author: gsurosey
Date: 2010-12-02 15:23
I was always under the impression that beginners would have a tougher time starting with pro level instruments as opposed to starting with a good student model and working up. Is my assumption wrong?
Rachel
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Author: Jack Kissinger
Date: 2010-12-02 16:41
Rachel,
IMO, the primary reasons to start a child on a "student" instrument are economic rather than musical. Unlike student mouthpieces, which are designed with a beginner's specific needs in mind, most so-called "student" Bb clarinets are simply models that are made from less expensive materials and receive less individual attention in the manufacturing process than professional models. Aside from a few exceptions, (e.g., Buffet student models have [or, at least used to have] smaller lower-joint cluster keys to accommodate smaller hands and are pitched higher to compensate for a beginner's weak embouchure so the beginner can play in ensembles with other students), the primary objective is to make the instrument affordable not to tailor it to a beginner's needs. Beginners may not initially be able to take advantage of all the improvements inherent in a top-of-the-line model but those improvements shouldn't hold a student back, either. So I would say, as long as a beginner can handle the added weight of a wooden instrument compared to a plastic one, your assumption is wrong.
Best regards,
jnk
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2010-12-02 17:14
And consider the tonal differences between a beginner model oboe compared to a pro model. If you play a plastic beginner model next to a Marigaux 901, you'll notice the tonal difference immediately - the Marigaux will have tons more tonal depth and weight to its tone.
Same with a plastic clarinet and a pro model - the differences in tone are clear, and an instrument that exhibits these qualities will be to the advantage of the player as they will be making a better sound from the start than they would be with a plastic beginner model.
Having previously worked in a local music shop repair department where on a very rare occasion a pro model oboe comes in for some work, it made a refreshing change to play something of quality rather than the usual old beaten-up schools and rental instruments with their thin, weak tone.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2010-12-03 00:46
This video may be even more impressive than the other two:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wtWOb7Pm-_Y&feature=mfu_in_order&list=UL
It was a WOW moment.
Mary (Mrs. Ken)
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