 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2010-11-30 20:02
Just trying to figure out what barrel I'm going to need. When I'm warmed up, it's spot on. But Army sometimes doesn't afford a lot of warm-up time before having to play the gig. So I'm wondering if someone has an idea as to how many cents per mm.
Playing a 65 mm barrel, but when starting out colder I'm somewhere around 10 - 15 cents flat until it warms up to playing in tune. Thanks.
Alexi
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Author: Caroline Smale
Date: 2010-11-30 20:05
Once warmed up then pull out until you are 10-15 cents flat again.
The amount you are pulled out should be pretty close to the amount you need shorter on a barrel.
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2010-11-30 20:17
Off the top of my head, I might start with about 5 cents per mm as a rough starting point. If I had a clarinet here at work I could test this out and come up with a better estimate, but then they'd fire me and I'd have no job and I'd have to sell fried pork rinds for a living and I wouldn't give a rat's patooty about clarinets at that point...........
Tell the Army to buy you a portable space heater to sit next to the clarinet section. What the heck, it's only our tax money............
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Author: jparrette
Date: 2010-11-30 20:38
Remember that a shorter barrel will raise the pitch of the "shorter" notes, namely the throat tones, more than the "longer" notes on the instrument, like low E and F and middle B and C.
The notes that use the entire length of the clarinet will be affected less by a 1 mm change in length than notes that just use the barrel and the top of the upper joint.
In a nutshell, tell MAJ Ancelet you need more warm-up time. Tell him also that I said hello. He was our XO at West Point before going to Atlanta.
John Parrette
CLARION MUSICAL SERVICES
john@clarionmusical.com
914-805-3388
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Author: avumback
Date: 2010-11-30 21:09
Your playing really doesnt matter until the clarinet is warmed up. If it plays well in tune at warm up why not just leave it. You would have to pull a shorter barrel out when warmed up. Actually I would do just exactly what the Army says ![[toast]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/smiley15.gif)
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2010-12-01 01:00
Quote:
In a nutshell, tell MAJ Ancelet you need more warm-up time. Tell him also that I said hello. He was our XO at West Point before going to Atlanta. lol. I'm not in McPherson, I'm at Gordon. What is now being affectionately referred to as "MACOM-South" (seems a lot of MACOM players are migrating here).
I can warmup as long as I want, but on days like Monday where the heater was knocked out and we had to have rehearsal in our band hall while wearing our fleeces, or like on Thursday where we'll be sitting patiently on stage waiting for about a half hour for speeches and whatnot and then have to "pickup and play", that's where I'd like to be able to change it.
No big deal though. Our commander understands, I just wish the clarinet wasn't the ONE instrument that really can't make itself sharper. I'll live.
Alexi
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Author: jparrette
Date: 2010-12-01 02:25
Sorry for my confusion!! I saw your Georgia e-mail and assumed you were at McPherson. I didn't know there was another band in Georgia.
Funny - we have climate issues in our hall too. Our band also plays sky-high, which doesn't help either.
John Parrette
CLARION MUSICAL SERVICES
john@clarionmusical.com
914-805-3388
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Author: Reedirect
Date: 2010-12-01 05:13
there are some adjustable barrels around. Those would perfectly suit you.
just one example
http://www.rsberkeley.com/Adjustable-Clarinet-Barrel.php
another example
http://www.paulus-schuler.de/html/klarinette.html
only for German-clarinets though. However, with a novel technique almost entirely avoiding any discontinuity of the inner bore. Those can most probably also be custom-made for Boehm clarinets.
Best
Jo
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Author: kdk
Date: 2010-12-01 16:39
I assume you're planning to buy the same make and model barrel as the one you're using, only shorter. Otherwise, I'm not so sure you can make any generalization about this. I have a couple of 65 mm barrels that don't move the pitch of my B-flat clarinet an iota higher than the 66 mm one I use regularly. They are from different makers - the bore diameters are different and the (reverse) tapers are different and the result is that, while the sound is different, the pitch is not.
Karl
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Author: Alseg
Date: 2010-12-01 20:28
Karl is correct (even if he does live near Reedman....the car dealer, not the reed dealer)
As the old addage goes........"It is not how long you make it...it's how you make it long". ![[wink]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/smilie3.gif)
The bore dimension will indeed alter the pitch to the extent that a 65mm barrel can tune the same as 66 or even a 64. The sonority will also be changed.
That is why it is necessary to ask the brand of instrument (even the year it was made) and type of mouthpiece used, etc. Sometimes it even helps to have a spare working barrel from the instrument in question, just to be sure.
Former creator of CUSTOM CLARINET TUNING BARRELS by DR. ALLAN SEGAL
-Where the Sound Matters Most(tm)-
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Author: kdk
Date: 2010-12-01 20:55
Alseg wrote:
> Karl is correct (even if he does live near Reedman....the car
> dealer, not the reed dealer)
>
More than that, I've actually bought cars there. 
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2010-12-02 00:14
Since you don't want a barrel that has to be pulled out too much once you are warmed up I'd suggest getting one mm shorter than you use now and you can pull it out slightly once you're warmed up. You don't want too much space between the barrel and the top joint. That will give you some le-way. It could also help to keep the barrel in your pocket to keep it warm before you start to play, it might help just a bit. ESP http://eddiesclarinet.com
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Author: Alseg
Date: 2010-12-02 02:53
I have it on good authority that Ed uses a battery operated barrel warmer, a prototype from GM, which has a hybrid gas engine backup.
It combines technology from their new electric car AND a Barrel.......they call it the BOLT ![[hot]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/hot.gif)
(can you tell by the latest threads and posts that winter is settling in North America.....oh to be in sunny Oz or NZ)
Former creator of CUSTOM CLARINET TUNING BARRELS by DR. ALLAN SEGAL
-Where the Sound Matters Most(tm)-
Post Edited (2010-12-02 02:54)
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Author: gsurosey
Date: 2010-12-02 15:03
At once time I used a click barrel, but in my experience, it didn't work for me very well. At 64mm, a lot of my Bb clarinet was in tune but the throat tones were horrendously sharp. I don't remember what clarinets I played on at the time (not the R13s I have now).
On my current set, I have a Moennig and a Chadash barrel (both 64mm because that's what came with them). If I pull out a little at the barrel, the joints, and the bell, I'm set (at least on the Bb; A is harder to bring the pitch up but it's getting better).
Same for my eefer (40mm Scott barrel). If I pull the barrel out a couple mm and the bell about a mm, the intonation is really good, especially for a 3,xxx Bundy.
Rachel
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2010-12-02 17:27
Thanks a lot Dr. Segal, now the secret is out how I play so well in tune. But you got it slightly wrong. I actually warm my whole clarinet up in the micro wave in the musicians lounge before going on stage. I have to do my bass clarinet in three heatings so I get the early if I have to play all the clarinets on that concert. ESP
PS.I agree with Rachel. In my opinion the click barrel is a gimmick and not worth the price of the postage, but that's just my opinion.
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2010-12-02 17:34
Thanks for the tip, Ed, I will start nuking my bass clarinet in the microwave as well. Another reason to prefer curved low-C extensions over the standard straight ones --- with the curved extension you can fit the entire lower joint in the microwave for warming up, which saves critical time before a show. Plus the guy behind you with the soup he's waiting to cook, won't get as angry at you.
Glad we've been able to stay on topic so well. We're very good at that here on the BB.
Speaking of barrels and pitch, I have a couple of very old (1920-ish) bakelite/metal screw-type adjustable barrels which seem to work pretty well with modern clarinets. One of them in particular has an enormous adjustment range (something like 60-76 mm).
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Author: Alseg
Date: 2010-12-02 18:18
Ed,
My microwave oven has a warning label "do not place metal objects in microwave oven."
I guess that means that trumpets can not use them for a warm up ......but clarinets are wood or plastic or rubber. The metal keys do not matter---or do they??
Former creator of CUSTOM CLARINET TUNING BARRELS by DR. ALLAN SEGAL
-Where the Sound Matters Most(tm)-
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2010-12-02 20:05
Well, Dr. Allan, nothing answers a question better than an actual experiment, I say!
Put a clarinet with metal keys in the microwave, and please let us know (a) how long the arcing and sparking continued, and (b) did the oven catch completely on fire, or did only the contents burn? We eagerly await your report.
Trumpet players are not bright enough to heed warning labels, I wouldn't be surprised if they've tried more than once to nuke their horns. Clarinetists know better, however.
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Author: JJAlbrecht
Date: 2010-12-02 20:13
This also begs the question of what burns best:
ABS, hard rubber, grenadilla or cocobollo?
Inquiring minds want to know!
Jeff
“Everyone discovers their own way of destroying themselves, and some people choose the clarinet.” Kalman Opperman, 1919-2010
"A drummer is a musician's best friend."
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Author: Alseg
Date: 2010-12-02 21:47
Jeff's signature reads:
“Everyone discovers their own way of destroying themselves, and some people choose the clarinet.” Kalman Opperman, 1919-2010
Now we can add...."And the best way to destroy a clarinet is to microwave it"
Former creator of CUSTOM CLARINET TUNING BARRELS by DR. ALLAN SEGAL
-Where the Sound Matters Most(tm)-
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2010-12-02 23:11
OK, I've been exposed, I don't actually use the microwave, I actually use a real oven but I set it on toasty to warm my clarinets up and I always stuff them with reeds. ESP
A disclaimer, I don't really do that so DON'T try it at home, or in the concert hall for that matter. Your clarinet might get set on fire.
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Author: BartHx
Date: 2010-12-03 00:15
On the other hand, if the concert hall is cold, a clarinet should burn longer than an oboe. Then you could go home and not have to listen to the oboes tuning.
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Author: Bob Phillips
Date: 2010-12-03 01:22
Actually, Allan, the GM "electric vehicle" technology is referred to as "DOLT" after the system engineering that defined it's use.
"Its more car than electric."
Bob Phillips
Post Edited (2010-12-03 14:47)
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Author: gsurosey
Date: 2010-12-03 03:57
This also begs the question of what burns best:
ABS, hard rubber, grenadilla or cocobollo?
Inquiring minds want to know!
Whatever violas are made of! lol
----------
Rachel
Clarinet Stash:
Bb/A: Buffet R13
Eb: Bundy
Bass: Royal Global Max
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Author: JJAlbrecht
Date: 2010-12-03 21:29
>>>Are trumpet players smart enough to work a microwave?
Possibly. YMMV.
Another question: Is a drummer smart enough to figure out how to plug in said microwave?
Jeff
“Everyone discovers their own way of destroying themselves, and some people choose the clarinet.” Kalman Opperman, 1919-2010
"A drummer is a musician's best friend."
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Author: Bob Phillips
Date: 2010-12-04 18:51
I finally did the experiment to measure how much pitch changes for a 1-millimeter pull-out at the tuning barrel.
Here's the methodology:
1.) I greased the devil out of the upper joint's upper cork so I could turn the Buffet RC into a trombone.
2.) I used a feeler gauge to open a 1-mm gap between the upper joint and the tuning barrel.
3.) Holding the barrel in my left hand and the bell in my right, I played open G (fingered G4) and settled the Korg tuner to a steady value.
4.) Then, resisting the force on the bell with my left hand so that I wouldn't move the mouthpiece in my embouchure, I collapsed the gap and watched the tuner.
5.) Tried the test several times.
The result:
1-mm at the barrel changes open G by about 10-cents.
I was also able to keep a steady embouchure using fingered C4 and got 10-cents per millimeter.
It was much more difficult to hold a steady embouchure fingering F3 and its 12th companion, C5, but the pitch change was only about half that of the throat and left hand notes --about 5-cents per millimeter.
I thought that the long tones would be even less affected by the tuning barrel --maybe only 2 or 3 cents; but that's what I go from this warm-up experiment.
Bob Phillips
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