 The Clarinet BBoard
|
Author: Julie
Date: 1999-06-30 01:31
I have an old wood Boosey & Hawke serial number 155452. I know it's over 40 years old. Does anyone know the value of this or a source where I can get a free appraisal?
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Dee
Date: 1999-06-30 02:32
Julie wrote:
-------------------------------
I have an old wood Boosey & Hawke serial number 155452. I know it's over 40 years old. Does anyone know the value of this or a source where I can get a free appraisal?
-------------------------------
I posted this further down under the previous discussion but for your convenience, I'll repost here.
http://www.musictrader.com/serialnos.html
According to the list at this site, that serial number places it in about 1975. Are you sure about the serial number?
Basically any clarinet under about 60 years old is competing in the used clarinet market not the antique market. Therefore its value will depend strictly on condition and what level of instrument it originally was. On the eBay auction, their "Fogware" and "Edgeware" models end up at between $50 and $100. The professional models that they made don't show up too often on eBay. The one or two that I have seen have gone for only a couple of hundred dollars. This is because everyone is looking for the names that are popular today (Buffet, Leblanc, and Selmer).
Also Boosey and Hawkes was formed in 1934 by a merger between two large London makers (Boosey & Co. and Hawkes & Sons). So even if it was made shortly after their merger, it still wouldn't be an antique.
However if it has one of the parent companies names rather than specifically "Boosey & Hawkes," then it might be old enough to be an antique as the parent firms were both founded well over 100 years ago and might have a value slightly more than that of just a used clarinet.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: charles
Date: 1999-07-01 17:19
I keep hearing about Boosey clarinets valued between 50 and 100 dollars. Try to find them. good luck...Of course I favor my R13 buffet but when I want to play jazz, or band music, I use my boosey horn with a Vandoren B45 mouthpiece and a Vandoren 3 1/2 and get the sound I want. for classical music, forget the Boosey. It is a little too thin in tone. Also ,watch those keys. They are made of pot metal and can break.
Charles
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Dee
Date: 1999-07-01 17:51
charles wrote:
-------------------------------
I keep hearing about Boosey clarinets valued between 50 and 100 dollars. Try to find them. good luck...Of course I favor my R13 buffet but when I want to play jazz, or band music, I use my boosey horn with a Vandoren B45 mouthpiece and a Vandoren 3 1/2 and get the sound I want. for classical music, forget the Boosey. It is a little too thin in tone. Also ,watch those keys. They are made of pot metal and can break.
Charles
-------------------------------
Just checked completed auctions on eBay. All but four went for $100 and down. Three of the exceptions specifically stated that they had been completely repadded recently. These went for around $150 and under. The fourth exception had several nearly new quality mouthpieces and a nearly new quality case. This one did manage to reach $200 in the bidding. Most of the instruments were the "Edgeware" model. A few were the 2-20.
Also I personally would never pay very much for any instrument with pot metal keys as once they break they are virtually non-repairable. In many cases, you are talking about discontinue instruments so you can't easily get a replacement key. Then you are stuck with trying to find another horn.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Dave Spiegelthal
Date: 1999-07-01 19:42
I've bought (on eBay) and fully restored/overhauled three of them (so far), all "The Edgware" models, a wooden one from 1945 (with the brittle pot-metal keys you mention), a hard-rubber one (1954, with cast keys of nickel-plated brass), and another wood one (1957, cast nickel-plated brass keys). The same model, three different years, two different body materials, two different key metals.
They all play really well, especially the 1957 wood one. So I'd say that the older Boosey & Hawkes clarinets can be either a wise purchase or not so smart, depending on the particulars of the individual clarinet. One thing's for sure, as Dee pointed out, they are cheap to buy! However, as always, Caveat Emptor.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Tony F
Date: 2009-10-10 07:12
I've had several B & H clarinets, and currently I play one of the last Emperors made. It's a superb instrument, with a good resonant tone throughout the range. I use it for classical work, but I use a Selmer for jazz. The Emperor sounded a bit thin and choked when I bought it secondhand, but I experimented with mouthpieces and replaced the original Selmer HS* with a Vandoren B45, which fixed the problem. They also play well with a Yamaha 4c. The best of the Booseys was the Imperial, then the Emperor, then the Regent and Edgware, but I'm not sure in what order of quality of the last 2. My other B & H's were both Edgwares.
Tony F.
Tony F.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: AuUrsi
Date: 2010-11-27 02:26
Just talked to my repair shop, and it sounds like the "pot metal" keys are actually made out of pewter. Pewter is definitely much softer and less durable than brass keys (that's why there's fairly little common useage metalware left from the 1770s - it was mostly pewter and got deformed or otherwise banged up and then was remelted). I'm going to be very careful with the keys - doubt I could actually get a new set that would fit if B & H are anything like the wood Buffets (where the keys get tweaked to fit a particular horn). On the plus side, it sounds like I lucked out and got a decent Edgeware - the shop said the horn sounds better than its monetary value would indicate.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: jasperbay
Date: 2010-11-27 04:30
I own a dozen or so B&H Edgwares,2-20's, and an 8-10. All have nickle plated white brass keys, NOT POT METAL ! I understand a few were made with zinc or some such alloy during WW2 but have never seen one, and don't really lose any sleep wondering if I'll get stuck with one, as they're fairly rare.
Enjoy your Edgware, its got good keywork, not pot metal, and the sound quality from the slightly larger than contemporary bore gives a nice, mellow, woody tone that most listeners appreciate. They do seem to like a B-45 type mouthpiece.
For those BB posters (I won't name names, you know who you are ![[grin]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/smilie5.gif) )who feel the keys are brass, well you're sort of correct: Brass comes in different colors (white, ie 'nickle silver', yellow, and red) and forms; sheet and cast. Sheet, or rolled, nickle-silver looks almost identical to sterling silver, while 'cast' nickle-silver usually has a yellowish tone that could be easily confused with common 'yellow' brass. In fact, casting nickle-silver left too long in the pot may actually burn off enough of the zinc (if memory serves) that helps make it "white brass" that it becomes nearly yellow brass.
With the older clarinets having 'unplated' german silver keywork, there's a lot of variation in the nickle-silver alloys used. Some look nearly like sterling silver, and don't seem to tarnish much, while others seem to tarnish fairly quickly, turning a dull yellow. I'm not enough of a metalurgist to know what exactly makes the difference . Don't want to confuse anybody, but "german silver" ie nickle-silver , contains NO silver. Its probably more accurate to consider it "white brass".
Clark G. Sherwood
Post Edited (2010-11-27 04:33)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Chris P
Date: 2010-11-27 05:16
The B&H clarinets that had mazak keys (ie. 'pot metal') were the B&H "77" (which had an ebonite bell) and the wooden Regents from the '50s.
For a more accurate B&H serial number list, click on this link http://www.clarinetperfection.com/clsnBH.htm
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
Post Edited (2010-11-27 05:33)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Tony F
Date: 2010-11-27 13:58
I thinned out some of the typical B & H fat keys on my Emperor, and when I'd filed throught the plating the underlying metal is a very pale straw colour. I assume its a brass alloy, as without the protective plating the areas that I've worked on now have the patina of oxidised brass. When I get around to it I'll have them replated. I did the same on a British Band Instruments "Cambridge", which is an Edgware stencil made by B & H, and the keywork on that is solid nickel-silver and much more robust.
Tony F.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: jasperbay
Date: 2010-11-27 18:23
My experience with Edgware keywork is exactly as Tony F. describes. When thinning the B&H sliver keys, and shortening a couple of interferingly long keys ("Spiegelthaling" in the US) you find the underlying white/yellow brass is a little more yellow (straw yellow is a good term) than most unplated 'german silver' that clarinet folks are used to. Most german silver (or nickel-silver) used in the muzzleloading rifle-building hobby is exactly this "straw yellow" color, however.
Ordinary "brass", also extensivly used in muzzleloader-building, is a much yellower gaudy-gold 'saxophone' color. I've only run into this type of brass keywork on nickel plated 'Chinese' Kohlert's and Italian metal clarinets, but I'd imagine a lot of other makes of 'student' clarinets may use regular brass as the base keywork metal.
The thing that impresses me in the clarinet world is the high quality of the unplated "german silver" found on many older high-end horns. I sure wish the folks who cast muzzleloader parts knew how to formulate this 'high quality' nickel silver.
Clark G. Sherwood
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Caroline Smale
Date: 2010-11-27 19:19
Ser No. 155452 dates to 1958 (+/- 1 year).
Posts above assume it's an Edgware but you haven't specifically mentioned this as far as I can see.
Quality ranges in ascending order Regent/Edgware/Emperor/Imperial
There were some other models made but they all range in between the Regent and Emperor models.
The pot metal was only used on the very bottom models in the late 40s/early 50s.
The early B&H were generally better made than the later models (even on the professional Imperial models (926/1010).
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: cceeeee
Date: 2016-09-06 19:29
This is really informative. I can see just how much I don't know reading these.. Is the best way to value one, before parting with it, to go to a shop and take their advice?
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Caroline Smale
Date: 2016-09-07 03:10
That would depend very much on the shop.
Sadly most retail outlets are staffed by people with very little knowledge of the instruments they sell, let alone models from byegone years.
There are honorable exceptions to this of course and the big ones like Howarth, Dawkes etc could certainly help.
A really competent repairer (quite rare) may also be able to help with advice.
Generally speaking the B&H clarinets are now "out of fashion" and even the professional models in relatively good condition don't fetch much money.
At the end of the day the old adage "willing seller - willing buyer" always applies.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Rhusband
Date: 2016-12-20 01:19
I had gotten a Boosey and Hawkes Edgeware. My serial number is 77626 and I would like to know what medal these keys are made out of. My research indicates that this Clarinet is a 1952 year. It's playable but needs a lot of TLC.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Caroline Smale
Date: 2016-12-20 03:12
The Edgware models keys were all as far as I recall made of nickelsilver. Only the Regents of that period had pot metal keys.
However a good check is to look at underside of the keys, which often had numbers stamped or embossed on them.
If the numbers are raised above the surface it's pot metal.
If they are impressed into the metal, or no numbers exist, then it should be nickle silver.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Rhusband
Date: 2016-12-20 03:33
I looked and three keys on the lower joint have raised numbers. There are three numbers then a dash then a letter and another dash and finally two more numbers. The rest of the keys on the instrument don't have numbers. I think those three keys, which are the left hand pinky keys on the lower joint, were replaced at one time. Thank you for your info.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Tony F
Date: 2016-12-20 04:35
Edgwares made up until the early 50's for the US market sometimes had Mazak keys. I've had several through my hands. The UK market Edgwares all had nickel-silver keys. I haven't seen Mazak keys on any US market Edgwares after around '53. I suspect that B & H were using up their stock of Mazak keywork.
Tony F.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Rhusband
Date: 2016-12-20 05:10
It has London, England stamped on both upper and lower joints. How would I check for the Mazak keys? My year fits the criteria. I think it's a '52. This instrument was found in a resale shop by my grandmother in the US state of South Carolina about 3 years ago. The cashiers at this shop didn't even realize that it was a Clarinet. It does play though. I did research and found the year, I think. I don't know anything else about the instrument.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Tony F
Date: 2016-12-20 07:23
Norman Smale's earlier post deals with this. Check the underside of the key touchpieces for the numbers. Indented numbers are nickel-silver, raised numbers are Mazak.
Tony F.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
The Clarinet Pages
|
 |
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
