 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Melanie
Date: 2001-01-03 03:25
Okay everyone, as I was procrastinating moving back into my dorm room from my all-to-short holiday break, I got to thinking: What exactly do the reed strength numbers refer to? I know that Vandoren 4's are harder than 3's and all of that, but what makes them harder? Is it a difference in the tip or the heart of the reed? Basically, what is it about a reed that makes it hard or soft?
I tried searching past postings, but all I found were people's recommendations for certain strenght reeds to use with particular mouthpieces. Plus, I've been playing now for 8 years and no one has ever really explained the "why's" of reeds to me, so this is a pretty elementary question.
Thanks!
Melanie
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2001-01-03 13:25
Eoin McAuley wrote:
>
> I think that harder reeds are thicker than soft
> reeds.
No, harder reeds are not necessarily thicker. A #5 regular VD is a lot thinner than a V12 2 1/2 ...
The hardness of the reed depends on a few things, the most important being the naturally varying hardness of the plant itself. A machine measures the hardness of the piece of cane (those little dimples you see on the butt end are the result of the measurement). The cut of the reed will change the way the reed plays, too (but not its innate hardness).
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Author: beejay
Date: 2001-01-03 15:42
Question ain't silly at all. I've wondered about it a lot. In fact, a 2 and a 5 seem to be exactly the same thickness, so it must be the consistency of the material, no?
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Author: Anji
Date: 2001-01-03 16:35
I think harder reeds have more fiber running through them, with less pith between these veins. Betcha higher strength = denser cane = greater weight/volume.
Larry Guy has put together a really good pamphlet on reed selection and adjustment that may help you get more playable reeds outta da box.
(Last box of Vandy V12, only 2 were ready to rock. I coerced 6 more into playing nice, or at least to stop running through the house with scissors.)
Reeds are what make or break my playing, these days.
Good luck!
anji
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Author: ron b
Date: 2001-01-03 19:32
Hi, Melanie -
First of all - - - (quietly... ) there is no such thing as a stupid question 
Stupid actions, yeah. Stupid comments, sure. Stupid conclusions, maybe.
But, stupid question? --- nawww w w Never heard one yet. And I'm an old guy.
As long as I've been honkin', people've been wonderin'... among other things, about the mysteries of reeds and why they do what they do.
I don't know much more about it now than I did a long time ago and I've listened to a lot, and I mean a *lot*, of discussion about the subject; everything from thickness to fiber density or whether reeds vibrate back and forth (like a diving board) or side to side, rippley-like, like a flag. You name it, I probably HAVEN'T heard about it... yet. But, I've heard a lot. In my little corner of the world I've discovered that it's not the thickness of the reed that makes a difference, rather, it's the 'heart' that tends to influence things. The reed has to be thin enough to vibrate but thick enough to hold up (we already know it's pretty tough stuff) - the thickness and shape of the heart (center 'bump') is the factor you want to be interested in. It should be, and remain, candle flame shaped. You can sand, scrape (I like reed rush for that) or gently file away at the heart to change vibrating properties but the shape should basically retain the flame profile - darker in the center, lighter toward the fringes. You can easily check that by holding it up to any light source. Don't try to make the tip any thinner - you'll ruin it. I mean, if it's onion skin paper thin it'll give 'way. Trim the tip any way you like, if you want to but, don't scrape it away. Reduce the heart thickness = softer reed. Trim back the tip = stiffer reed.
Personally, I don't monkey around with reeds much. They usually play just fine for me right out of the box. I know, to some this is pure heresy -- but store bought reeds are usually okay -- for me. Some last a little longer than others. I use plain ol' 3 1/2 Ricos with my favorite mpc and I'm perfectly happy for a month or two - every day, same reed. I'm talking 'generally', 'average', not *always* - there's a bit of variation; sometimes a reed lasts a week or two and dies. Too bad :[
Well, I admit outright that I'm not a very sophisticated clarinet player or particularly fussy about what's for dinner tonight -- I'm pretty easily pleased. I have played in a wide variety of musical outfits in my time though. Reeds were never my primary concern.
Just for the fun of it, another BB poster and I are going to do some reedmaking - homemade style, from scratch - and post the results. May get around to it in the not too distant future. I'm kinda waiting for a spring batch of cane to sprout out here in CA. Have you done anything with that yet, J.V. ?
ron b
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Author: Kontragirl
Date: 2001-01-04 00:08
Who said there's no such thing as a stupid question?
Why do we say something is out of whack? What is a whack?
When someone asks you, "A penny for your thoughts," and you put your two cents in, what happens to the other penny?
Or more on topic:
On a clarinet, why is the octave key called the octave key? It raises the note a twelfth, so shouldn’t it be the twelfth key?
Those are dumb questions.
To be honest, your question is anything but dumb. I'll do some research and get a real answer for you
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2001-01-04 00:51
Kontragirl - that's why we clarinetists call it an register key instead of and octave key. It's those other silly reeds that insist on calling it an octave key (because it really <i>does</i> change pitch an octave on them).
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Author: Kontragirl
Date: 2001-01-04 01:43
I'm aware that it's really known as the register key...but I have heard it called an octave key by fellow clarinets. They don't like it when I ask them that question. It confuses them.
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Author: ron b
Date: 2001-01-04 06:56
I don't, personally, know anyone famous who said there are no dumb questions.
My metalworking (,the artsy kind of) teacher said it once and one of my co-workers consoled a friend of hers that way. A former boss, while he never actually said it, never talked down to anyone; he conducted himself as though there weren't any. Oh, yeah, I remember a high school public speaking teacher who gave us that impression... something about being a good listener. I guess somewhere along the way I kinda picked it up from people I looked up to. I assure you the idea didn't originate with me
I don't really care what you call a register key - it's the one that make it easier to play high notes.
I hope someone comments about, contradicts and/or corrects my ideas about reeds. They're subjective ideas and observations and my knowledge about the subject is as limited as all the people I've ever discussed the subject with -- they didn't know beans about it either. I'm hoping someone else will take a whack at it, add to our pool of knowledge and not gum up the works :
Looking for the silver lining, :]
ron b
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Author: joevacc
Date: 2001-01-05 02:37
Hi Ron B,
I do have that cane in a nice dry spot. I have not tried to make a reed from scratch yet, I only have done the store bought blanks. ;~( Now that you have me thinking about it maybe I'll get one started! I'll let ya know how it goes.
best,
jv
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Author: Ken Rasmussen
Date: 2001-01-05 04:19
I've seen very few stupid questions on the bulletin board, but I know I've asked a few in the machine shop where I work. I'm beginning to realize that I can answer my own questions an awful lot of the time at work, and not interrupt anyone else in their work. It is good to think before asking questions, or even speaking at all. It is certainly a luxury though, to be able to come to the Bulletin Board, and have any clarinet related subject discussed and debated from a variety of perspectives. I've learned a lot from this source, and I'm very grateful to all the participants.
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Author: Bob Curtis
Date: 2001-01-06 17:26
Melanie:
ron b-- hit the nail on the head. IT IS THE HEART OF THE REED THAT REALLY MATTERS!! That along with the QUALITY OF THE CANE that is in the reed.
I, too, have been around a long time. I have played the clarinet for 60 years, taught it for 50, taught band in Texas for 37 years, played professionally for severally years in symphonic organizations and jazz bands, , retired in ?90, am currently the director of a community band, still teaching privately and am enjoying it immensely! I?ve reached that stage where I don?t have to prove anything to any one, just try to pass on some of the knowledge which I have been privileged to obtain to others who might want to learn a little bit more.
Reeds are a very personal thing. Some have reached the point where they swear by only ONE brand and ONE strength while others are continually trying and looking for that ?PERFECT? reed -- IT AIN?T OUT THERE!! (pardon my English!)
I, too, doctored reeds trying to get them up to ?my specifications.? I don?t have time for that now and have generally settled on one type of reed which produces the tone which I want and fits me well AND I can play usually right out of the box. I also learned that it is the HEART - that center section of the reed - along with the QUALITY OF THE CANE which makes the difference in the reeds. If you have well cut reeds but of poor quality you are not going to have good sounding reeds. It takes both to make a GOOD SOUNDING REED!!
You must remember also that there is a difference in the tone needed to play different styles of music. Symphonic tone is not the same as Jazz tone, although they are both related in that they require a good quality of sound. Pick your reed which will satisfy your requirement for the style you are playing. You can play both styles with with the SAME mouthpiece and the SAME reed. This is not a contradiction of what I previously said -- just be careful in your choice of reeds and mouthpiece and it can be done.
Good luck in your quest for knowledge about the mystical clarinet reeds.
Bob Curtis
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