 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: karlbonner82
Date: 2010-11-02 06:21
(For this topic's purpose, "joint" refers to the corked connections themselves, NOT the pieces of clarinet that are assembled at the connections!)
Over the past several months I have noticed that the notes C and C# in chalumeau, as well as G/G# in the clarion, have some difficulty blending and matching with the notes immediately above and below. In the chalumeau it manifests itself mainly as a mild airy "hiss" while the notes B and below, as well as D and above, have a very clean and solid sound. In the clarion register the G# has a rather hard and thin tone, as opposed to the more brilliant sound from A up to C, and the very rich and sweet notes from F# downward.
Of these four notes, clarion G seems to be the least problematic - its quality is barely distinguishable from F#, and you have to have a moderately good ear to notice at all. But the discrepancy is there, I can definitely tell.
I also noticed that the middle joint is a bit loose/wobbly when assembled. I don't recall having any problems with it actually falling apart in the middle of practice, but the alignment sometimes slips a bit, enough to make trouble with the key mechanism used when playing chalumeau Eb / clarion Bb with the XOOXOO fingering.
I suspect that this may be responsible. If there's a slight leak in the middle joint it would definitely explain the tonal problems with C and G. Also it at least seems that when I apply a fresh and generous quantity of cork grease, the problem isn't quite as bad - precisely what you'd expect if the joint was leaking.
However, there's a complication to this hypothesis. The C#/G# is worse - not what I would expect given that the keyhole for this note is above the joint while that for C/G is below. Could there simultaneously be something wrong with the hole or the pad for C#/G#?
Finally the solution question. What, if anything, could I do to fix or reduce the leak at the joint, if that really is the root of the problem? A pricey repair is off the table, since it would be too costly to justify for an el-cheapo clarinet like mine. I'm thinking something along the lines of a thicker cork that would fit more tightly, or maybe something inside the "female" part of the joint to lower its internal diameter ever so slightly. Suggestions???
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Author: kdk
Date: 2010-11-02 06:46
If the cork or the tenon were leaking, you'd feel the effect all the way down the lower (RH) section, not just on those notes. More likely, the pad just below the section break (which closes when you play B/F# or Bb/F) is too close to the hole when open or you have dirt or something else - an old piece of tape used for tuning? - blocking the hole. If your bridge key is mis-aligned because the joint is moving around or because one of the bridge keys has gotten bent (since you mention trouble with the 1-and-1 Eb/Bb), that 1st pad on the bottom could be too close to the hole. When you press anything involving the right hand, the problem will go away because the hole is then closed (but if you really pay attention, you may find that the right hand rings seem not to go down as far as they should). C#/G# might be worse than C/G just because it's normally a stuffier note even when everything is working well.
Karl
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2010-11-02 07:54
I also thought of the ring-operated uppermost pad on the lower joint being too low. The amount of hissing varies with clarinet models, ring height, pad type and dimensions and, who knows, with the music on your stand.
I nearly everywhere replace that pad with a smaller one (or rather: a non-bladder pad with a taper so that it's just a wee bit larger than the tonehole crown, similar to what can be seen with register key pads) to get of the dreaded air rush.
And yes, in the chalumeau it's usually worse.
Per the wobbly joint - the best solution is, of course, to replace the cork. If that is out of the question, wind some dental floss around the cork and see if the wobble stops. (before there were corked joints, they used thread)
You mention the pricey repair - it's not about an el-cheapo clarinet, it's about you who should be worthy enough to invest some $50 to have this issue fixed.
--
Ben
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Author: Phurster
Date: 2010-11-02 08:20
I had the same problem.
Re corking the joint didn't seem to work, the Clarinet still moved and felt acoustically insecure. The technician then built up the joint with Carbon fibre and wood pulp. He then re corked the joint. This worked, at least for the last two years.
The instrument is now a bit dodgy. So I will see what can be done.
Chris.
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Author: Bassie
Date: 2010-11-02 09:03
Are your suspect notes slightly out of tune as well? That would also suggest pad-height.
But C#/G# is often flakey on 'el cheapo' clarinets.
A recork for the joint should be inexpensive, and should help with any wobble. The tech should notice the wobble, but it doesn't hurt to point out if you'd like a 'snug' one, people do have different tastes in this. Last time I had one done the tech gave it back to me with a concerned expression: 'is this too tight, shall I ease it a bit?' Not at all, I like 'em like that.
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2010-11-02 16:24
The first step is to make sure the center joint is completely airtight. Wrap a strip of newsprint paper around the cork to find out.
There are two areas on the clarinet where the wood is thin: (1) at the bottom of the top joint, on the outside, between the bottom of the C#/G# hole and the top of the tenon cut; and (2) the bottom joint, between the bottom of the socket and the upper edge of the hole covered by the pad attached to the ring key, particularly if the hole is undercut; A crack in either area can create a difficult-to-find leak.
The tenon at the bottom of the upper joint is usually shorter than the socket at the top of the lower joint, leaving an interior gap. Some players fill the gap with a cork or a tuning ring to stabilize the joint, but others say the gap is intentional. See http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/read.html?f=1&i=237222&t=237122. At any rate, it would be an easy and inexpensive experiment to fill the gap to find out whether it fixes the acoustical problem.
François Kloc told me that C#/G# key almost never opens far enough. You should be able to play a low E, open the key and get a multiphonic. If you can't, open the key up until you do. Then do the same thing on low F, F#, G and G#. This will also increase resonance on C#/G# and eliminate the hiss.
A cork pad for the C#/G# key, chamfered around the edge, can increase the venting and cure at least some of the fuzziness.
Remember, though, that the C#/G# hole placement is an acoustical compromise, too small and too high, due to the existence of the center joint. When you try a Rossi, which has a one-piece body, you will immediately notice the excellent sound and intonation of C#/G#, due to the acoustically correct placement of the hole. On the standard instrument, you need to be aware of the problem and blow a little harder, the same as you do for the throat Bb (though to a lesser degree).
Ken Shaw
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Author: kkab45
Date: 2011-01-26 04:38
I just had my middle cork replaced but my open g to eb and middle c sound terrible. did they miss a line the key ? they had to take the cork and place it the full mid joint. my tone is also not the same,,,, any suggestions ?
k
kalmen opperman was such an outstanding teacher. may he rest . he was loved by many. We have been blessed to have known him.
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