 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Rich Bell
Date: 2001-01-02 08:50
I recently inherited a beautiful Buffet Crampon from 1938. It doesn't have
a crack in it. The keys need replacing as well as the joints, however
when i brought it into a shop to have it fixed up the guy said I shouldn't
bother because clarinets sound different today than they did back then
and that the 1938 sound isn't acceptable.
Is he right? This is not a cheapo clarinet it's top make from that
period and I can't imagine that it'll sound anything but wonderful.
Plus everytime I see a clarinet sold from the same period it gets
thousands of dollars. Somebody must value them!
I really want to fix the clarinet but it's several hundred to get it
done and I need to know whether or not it is worth it!
Help!
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Author: Dee
Date: 2001-01-02 11:50
It's worth it but find a different technician.
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Author: Lee
Date: 2001-01-02 11:57
I think that maybe you should go to another repair man because the clarinet is worth getting fixed. I know some clarinetists who would die to have one of those old
Buffets just because of the sound that it produces.
Hey in my opinion get the clarinet fixed and I bet you'll love it.
Let us know what happens.
Good luck,
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Author: jbutler
Date: 2001-01-02 12:01
Rich,
The keys probably don't need replacing. The ones on the clarinet currently can be worked to make a tight fit. Do you really mean that the pads need replacing? Besides you can't find replacement keys for these older clarinets. The manufacturer has long since quit production on this model. Tenons......why do they need to be repalced? Do you really mean that the cork needs replacing? The only reason to do a tenon graft is if the tenon is broken. Cracked tenons can be capped. I've overhauled two older Buffets just this past month. Both were in the 20XXX serial number range.
John
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Author: Anji
Date: 2001-01-02 12:18
Is this the modern keywork, or an old style Albert-system horn? This might be why the tech declined the job.
Was this a dedicated band-instrument shop or some mall music store?
While it is true that horns will sell easier in working condition, it may not be a good investment if you intend to resell.
If you're a player, you may well have something sweet. The big band gize had horns from this period and we all know their glorious sound! With a good setup, matched mouthpiece and good reed selection you could have the clarinet of your lifetime.
If you're doing a refurb, the $100 it should cost for pads and cork will easily be worth $300 and maybe more in the right market.
I would recommend you send it off to JB for an estimate, or at least scan it and send him the image, he has earned a reputation for quality and fairness in restoration.
Any repairman turning away work on a vintage horn is either very busy or is trying to steer you away from mistakes. These folks do make their money from performing repairs, after all.
anji
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Author: Bill
Date: 2001-01-02 15:18
I think you need to sell this clarinet to me. I already have Buffet number 25,0xx (1938) and I need another one because I collect these old, bad-sounding instruments as punishment for my three cats. The cats must endure short twelfths, mellow tones, and an absolute paucity of outrageously-priced "specialty" mouthpiece$ and barrels.
It's terrible.
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Author: Robert
Date: 2001-01-02 16:22
Yea, people don't like the sound of the old clarinets, thats why Buffet came out with their Vintage model to try and sound more like the old clarinets. I don't know what kinda crack that tech was smoking! There is no way you should have to replace the actual keys, unless they are snapped in two (and even then you can weld them back if anything). Then again I echo Anji's comments, is it Albert system? If it is that is probobly the reason he didn't want to work on it. Albert system clarinets still sound really good (in fact in Germany and Austria they use a modified albert system for all their clarinets still) its just different to play. I echo everyone's commeners.... find a different tech!
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Author: Dee
Date: 2001-01-02 16:54
If it is as late as 1938 and was made for sale in this country, it's unlikely that it would be an Albert system. But of course anything is possible.
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Author: ron b
Date: 2001-01-02 17:41
Without even seeing the horn, I'd recommend that you heed ALL the above advice - (except Bill, don't sell it to him - sell it to me!  keep it and fix it. Dee and John sum things up nicely and are right on target about this instrument. They are prized because they're wonderful players. (They also sell for more than most of us are able to pay you for it). It's a keeper, Rich.
Find a new tech - pronto.
ron b
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Author: Jeff Forman
Date: 2001-01-02 21:05
Rich - I have a Buffet serial number 29472 which has some problems, and I have taken it to Lee Lachman who lives in College Park, Maryland (301-345-3389). I loved the sound that this horn puts out - it turns out to be fairly free-blowing (compared to the 1938 Selmer that I have). One neat thing is that it has an articulated g# key (just like the Selmer does - the Selmer has a low e-flat also). Anyway, Lee may be able to tell you if it worth fixing up and how much it might take to do so. His work is good and he is a professional clarinetist. He just fixed up a Langenus that I have and he did a very nice job. I certainly think it would worth looking into.
Jeff
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Author: Willie
Date: 2001-01-02 21:18
Most of the older better quality clarinets sound beautiful. You'll probably find many folks here on Sneezy that play these every day in lieu of a modern one. I don't think this tech was thinking in YOUR interest. Then again he may be a recent graduate of Tiajuana College of Clarinet Knowledge (correspondence course). It probably just needs pads, corks and a good mouthpiece. I've seen very few quality clarinets that had badly worn keys, but even thats fixable. Check around with other clarinetists in your area and find another tech. Get other opinions from them. There are some very good ones right here on sneezy if you can't find one locally.
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Author: Cass
Date: 2001-01-03 01:18
Does that tech sell used instruments? Did he by any chance offer a very small amount of money to take yours off your hands and get rid of it for you...?
Caution:
Suspicious Mind At Work.
It's hard for me to believe that a technician who knows anything would think a vintage Buffet isn't worth fixing, unless it's well and truly trashed, with major cracks up into the tone holes, broken tenons, missing keys, etc.. If all it needs is the usual overhaul (corks, pads, some of the springs, etc.), no way could you buy a new clarinet of comparable quality for the price of fixing the fine old one. Maybe he had another customer in mind for it.
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Author: jbutler
Date: 2001-01-03 02:25
Cass,
I think it was a matter of "his opinion". I know a very fine clarinet instructor that will not allow his students to get Buffet clarinets under the 102,XXX series. He believes that they changed the bore dimensions about this time. I can not find any resource to back up this claim, but he believes it passionately.
Secondly, perhaps he didn't have the time to devote to a restoration, especially if he has a backlog of instruments. Older instruments (clarinet, sax, flute, trumpet,etc.) aren't a "piece of cake". It sometimes takes me several hours over a couple of weeks to get one right. Sure, I could stick some pads and new corks on a clarinet in a couple of hours...and even get the keys polished to boot, but to REALLY do it right one has to STUDY the instrument throughout each process. Each one has it's own traits and problems.
Finally, older clarinets DO sound differently! That's why I love 'em. In Ernest Ferron's book "The Clarinet Revealed" (International Music Press) he states: "Certain clarinets made during the years preceding the second world war remain (considering the sound in fashion at the time) authentic masterpieces. Their makers perfectly understood the sensitive parameters of how the instrument works. Their knowledge was immense, but having known them well, I can tell you that human relations with these master craftsmen were rugged. All of those who have made an impact on instrument making were exceptional because they asserted a personality out of the ordinary."
p. 3
All the best,
John
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Author: Kim L.
Date: 2001-01-03 03:25
Some old clarinets are made for the European sound and are not A440. This is the case with my old Buffet (1930). It is extremely sharp, but still in very good condition. It is not as mellow as the new R-13 I am playing on now.
However, I feel that you should give it a whirl with the technician to see if the clarinet is what you want.
Good luck.
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Author: Cass
Date: 2001-01-03 14:26
I agree the old Buffets sound a little different than the more recent ones. My understanding is, they started making clarinets with a polycylindrical bore during the 1950s. But to me there's not *much* of a difference. The only thing I hear for myself is that the new ones are more shrill sounding. Maybe some people think that's an improvement for more projection, in a big band with lots of brass sound. I like the mellow "rounded" tone better. My aunt plays a Buffet from the 1930s (not sure the exact year). IMHO that's a great clarinet. I had a chance to borrow it for a week when she went on vacation. Now I'm jealous and my clarinet doesn't sound as good to me as I thought before.
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2001-01-03 14:28
Well said , JB, D, I agree with most of the advice, get several opinions of the degree of repair- updating needed for playing and appearance needed and DO it! Don
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