 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: kenney
Date: 2010-09-29 03:05
Hi,
I have been looking for a selmer 10G and came across a 10S. I can't find a whole lot on the web about what differences the S has with the G. I know the S came right after the G, but that's it. I am curious as I have found a selmer series 10 S for sale serial # A 8840. Thanks.
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Author: donald
Date: 2010-09-29 08:55
The NZ internet auction site has a B flat 10G for sale, i could maybe play test it for you as i'm going to the town it's being sold in... email me at my address shown in profile if you'd like me to help you out...
dn
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Author: donald
Date: 2010-09-30 01:53
Kenny- the site is called "Trademe" (the nz version of the one we're not supposed to mention here, so i didn't mention it before as i assumed it was against the rules... it may be- so i won't be offended if this gets edited...). I have no connection at all with the seller... to work out the prices in US dollars you will have to multiply by 0.7... i'm not sure what the canadian dollar rate is at the moment...
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2010-09-30 15:18
Donald -
It's perfectly kosher to mention eBay here. What's trayf is linking to particular sale items or attached photos.
Ken Shaw
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2010-09-30 15:32
Here's the paragraph on eBay from the Help/Rules link:
Quote:
No auction (eBay or otherwise) links, references, comments, or questions about currently selling items. NO EXCEPTIONS! There are good reasons for this, with a primary reason being egregious shilling, sometimes (oftentimes) obscured by alternate screen names and email addresses. Educational references after a sale has concluded are fine.
At one point I had at least 3 eBay sellers with ongoing threads, each having multiple screen names on this BBoard "innocently" starting a thread "What do you think about 'this item' ? Do you think it's a good buy?" and other similar stories. I caught a few red-handed (one was even having a conversation with themself to keep the thread going ...). What tipped me off on how rampant it was was when I caught one person and shut down the thread they complained that I was letting other people do it and why was I picking on them?!?!
So ... I decided the only fair way to eliminate the problem was to ban references to currently selling items on eBay and other auctions. I know it's a pain since many people want to ask questions about something that's currently on "that auction site", but unfortunately the "bad guys" make it nearly impossible to ferret out the shilling.
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Author: kenney
Date: 2010-09-30 15:42
Would anyone have an answer to my question - what's the difference between a selmer series 10G and a 10S ?
Thanks.
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Author: kdk ★2017
Date: 2010-09-30 17:03
One of the differences I'm fairly certain about is in the position of the register vent.
The S, as I remember, replaced the 10G after Selmer's association with Anthony Gigliotti (whom the G signifies) ended. The 10G was modeled, but with some adjustments, on the Buffet R-13 with the modifications developed over the years by Hans Moennig. It was designed for an American market to produce what was described in their advertising as the "American" sound - a cross between the weight and depth ("darkness") of the sound recognized at the time as the German sound and the clarity and flexibility of what was then the stereotypical French sound. When the 10S replaced it, the register vent and a few other small changes, I think in the bore, were made to improve some of the intonation compromises that had been made with the 10G (every clarinet design involves a series of choices), and probably some details of key shape that Gigliotti had insisted on were changed.
I don't know how the 10S played first-hand, but my suspicion is that if it had been redesigned to produce a radically different sound or response, they would have completely renamed the model to distance it from the 10G, which was an excellent clarinet but never, I don't think, came near to overcoming Buffet's popularity outside the Philadelphia area. Maybe someone knows more about the technical differences, but they were both excellent instruments aimed at the professional market.
Karl
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Author: kenney
Date: 2010-09-30 17:31
Thank you very much Karl.
I found a 10S for $800. I haven't played it yet. It helps to know a bit about it before hand.
Thanks again,
Ken
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Author: Tony Pay ★2017
Date: 2010-09-30 19:44
Karl wrote:
>> I don't know how the 10S played first-hand...>>
The difference between the two instruments as far as I'm concerned is that I recorded the Spohr concertos I and II on the 10S, and on the 10G....I didn't:-)
Tony
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Author: saxlite
Date: 2010-10-01 07:02
I own both a 10G and 10SII. I like the 10G in my clarinet quartet and concert band playing, but I prefer the 10SII for big band playing. The 10G has less resistance and a somewhat darker tone, while the 10SII is slightly more resistant and has a good tone that carries well over the full big band. There are slight differences in the shape of the 10G pinky keys that takes a little getting used to. There's room in this world for both.
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Author: kenney
Date: 2010-10-01 07:12
Thanks alot. Good to know.
In my quest for a good horn, This week I found a 1966 R-13 in perfect condition. It plays beautifully. The wood is in excellent shape - hard to believe it's 45 years old.
No need to get the Selmer 10 S anymore but still very curious how it plays. Will probably check it out anyway.
Thanks everyone for your help.
Ken
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Author: Ralph
Date: 2010-10-01 12:03
To try to answer David's question more precisely, according to a 10S brochure, the 10S was introduced in Europe in 1977 and to the U.S. in 1980. It was a direct decendent of the Series 10. I believe the 10 G was introduced after the 10S.
Ralph
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Author: JJAlbrecht
Date: 2010-10-01 12:49
No, the 10 G was around well before the US introduction of the 10S.I had friend in band who got hers aroung 1972 or '73, and another who got hers a year or two before that. That would have made it impossible for the 10G to have come after the10S
Jeff
“Everyone discovers their own way of destroying themselves, and some people choose the clarinet.” Kalman Opperman, 1919-2010
"A drummer is a musician's best friend."
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Author: kdk ★2017
Date: 2010-10-01 14:16
I bought my 10G sometime during the 1972-73 academic year.
Karl
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Author: Phurster
Date: 2010-10-03 10:00
Tony pay said;
"The difference between the two instruments as far as I'm concerned is that I recorded the Spohr concertos I and II on the 10S, and on the 10G....I didn't:-)"
Well I am blown away (literally). These are my two all time favourite Clarinet recordings. Which I have for years played to students as examples of how a Buffet Clarinet should sound! ARRRGH!
Chris.
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Author: Caroline Smale
Date: 2010-10-03 20:52
For the record there seem to be significant differences in bores between the 10G 10 and 10S
Just measured the barrels for these clarinets and it shows size (top or M/P end of bore first)
10G 15.05 - 14.80
10 14.70 - 14.55
10S 14.55 - 14.40
I only have a complete 10G to hand at moment but its top bore is not polycylindrical like most R 13s but tapers evenly from 15.2mm for some distance and measures 14.65 at lower end (same as an R13).
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Author: jbutler ★2017
Date: 2010-10-03 21:15
According to all the Selmer information I have the 10G and 10S have the same bore size of .572"
John B
Post Edited (2010-10-03 21:20)
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Author: Caroline Smale
Date: 2010-10-03 23:08
I think the difficulty with bore size definition is that it is commonly quoted for the central parallel section of the bore, which often accounts for less than 50 percent of total bore length, and ignores what actually happens at the higher and lower ends of the instrument, and it is these accoustical characteristics that have a profund effect on the way an instrument behaves and sounds.
The R13 is "poycylindrical" and has 3 different sized parallel sections. So what is its bore size.
The usual figure quoted is the bore at bottom end of upper joint in this case (about 14.65mm) but many other makes and models of clarinet share this common dimension but behave quite differently to an R13..
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Author: kenney
Date: 2010-10-04 03:45
Hi. Ken here. I asked about the selmers, then got a 1966 R-13.
Just a quick question. It really looks like this clarinet was hardly used. It was overhalled a few weeks ago and plays beautifully. But I noticed when I put the swab through it a bit of dark brown residue from the wood comes off from inside the bore. Is this normal ? Maybe the bore needs some oil? Thanks.
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Author: jbutler ★2017
Date: 2010-10-04 12:16
Most likely excess oil leeching from the bore.
John B
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