 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: jerry
Date: 2000-12-29 22:57
Is it possible (I bet it is) to look at the first line of music and determine what key it is in? HOW?
I know the 3/4, 4/4, etc. I can recognize the "measure" lines .... I know that this is limited knowledge, but......... Also, at the end of some lines of music there is a double dot, a thin bar and a heavy bar. I understand that this means to play this line again. However, what does this mark mean when it is shown at the beginning of a line?
thanks.
~ jerry
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Author: Willie
Date: 2000-12-29 23:13
The key signature at the beginning (sharp & flat symbals) will tell the key. If it has no symbals, it most likely is in C major or A minor. How ever I have seen some music written with accidentals (sharps & flats) on the individual notes in lieu of a key signature. The double bar with two dots at the end is indeed a repeat. The same bar at the beginning is where you go back to when repeating. This is kinda short, but I hope it helps.
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Author: Yusuf Zaid
Date: 2000-12-29 23:17
Jerry,
I don't want to sound like I can't be bothered to explain your questions but I think you really should get a book on basic music fundimentals. These are usually found in the beginning of beginners tutor books which are quite inexpensive. Also the library will surely have something for you.
Good luck.
Yusuf
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Author: jerry
Date: 2000-12-30 00:04
>"... I think you really should get a book on basic music
>fundimentals. These are usually found in the beginning of beginners tutor books which are >quite inexpensive.
Thanks, Yusuf but I do have four beginner clarinet/music books and two other clarinet books (by Stein & Pinot) that teach the tech stuff about clarinets and clarineting. But you *know*, sometimes the old thick skull gets in the way and you just don't *get* it.
I know about the key signature with the sharp and flat symbols but I thought these were to tell how a note on a particular line was to be played (sometimes I see as many as six sharps at the beginning and there is probably more where they came from) - I understood nothing about this signifying the *key* the music is to be played. And, as I said, I understood the dos/dbl. bars at the end (my book explains that) it just didn't explain the one I found in some music that occurs at the beginning.
I recall as a kid (about 12 yrs), I would cry because I could not understand algebra, but when it finally sunk in, math became my favorite subject - just loved to do algebra problems after that.
Hey there's a lot to learn here and not a whole lot of time to do it - got to keep practicing.
Thanks again.
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Author: Julia
Date: 2000-12-30 00:40
Well, best of luck. the sharps and flats at the beginning tell both what notes are to be played how (what you said), and also the key. Basic music theory: SHARPS(#): 1 # = G major, or e minor, 2#s = D major, or b minor, 3#s=A major, or f# minor, 4#s=E major, or c# minor, 5#s=B major, or g# minor, 6#s= F# major, or d# minor, 7#s= C# minor, or a# minor
FLATS(b): 1b= F major, or d minor, 2bs= Bb major, or g minor, 3bs=Eb major, or c minor, 4bs=Ab major, or f minor, 5bs=Db major, or Bb minor, 6bs= Gb major, or Eb minor, 7bs=Cb Major, or Ab minor
Thats info on the keys...if you wanted to know. Thats the way you tell a key--to find out if its the major or minor, play it and see how it sounds is the easiest way. THe repeat sign (which you now recognize) at the beginning merely indicates that thats where you go back to when you see one at the end. (because its not always nice and easy by the line)
Anyway, best of luck,
julia
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Author: Pam
Date: 2000-12-30 02:37
In addition to what Julia said, the sharps will always be in the same order. F, C, G, D, A, E, B. Flats go in the opposite order every time too. B, E, A, D, G, C, F. Each of these notes is a fifth apart in the order given.
I wish I could draw a circle of fifths for you here. It's pretty cool how all of it clicks together when you see this.
Maybe a music theory book would be helpful rather than clarinet specific books.
Best Regards,
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Author: jerry
Date: 2000-12-30 03:33
Pam wrote -
"I wish I could draw a circle of fifths for you here. It's pretty cool how all of it clicks together when you see this."
I have a "circle of fifths" chart and I shall review with this new knowledge in mind.
Thanks Pam.
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Author: William
Date: 2000-12-30 03:51
The "key signiture" tells you what major or minor chord the composition is based upon. Example, no sharps or flats is the key of C and the composition is based on the C major chord (could also be A minor); Bb in your key signiture is the key of F major (or D minor) and that the composition is based upon the F major (or D minor) chord. A simple chord progression is as follows: I IV I V I ( tonic sub-dominat tonic dominat tonic) The tonic chord is always the one that the composition is based upon. So, in the key of C, I=C major, IV=F major, I=C major, V=G major I=C major. In the key of one flat (Bb)--key of F major, I=F major, IV=Bb major, I=F major, V=C major, I=F major. Try these chords on a piano and you may get the idea. Of course, in real music, chord progressions can become quite complex and tonalities blurred, but key signitures always tell you what major tonallity the composition is based upon. Another way of understanding tonallity and key signiture relationships is to study scales. As an example, two sharps (F# and C#) is the key signiture (D major) of the major scale beginning and ending on D (D major scale). Two flats (Bb and Eb) is the key of Bb major and also describes the major scale beginning and ending on Bb (Bb major scale). Most musicians who are good music readers can look at a compositions key signiture and automatically shift into the necessary scale and arpeggiated sequencies using the necessary sharps and flats to play the correct tonallity. I know that if I see four sharps (Key of E major), my fingers automatically play F#s, C#s, G#s and D#s and I just think about playing the notes musically and in tune. This business of basic music theory is a complex issue, so please don't feel bad if you are confused at first. You really should have some manner of special instruction via private teacher or a basic music theory class offering, perhaps by a local tech school or music store. At the risk of totally confusing you, I am going to stop at this point. All of the info in the other posts is really good and I hope this helps in some way. Good clarineting.
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Author: Jim
Date: 2000-12-30 04:51
Jerry,
I hope you pick up music theory faster than I picked up algebra! Be aware that the key can change in the middle of a piece, and sometimes will do so many times. This is seen by a double bar with naturals on the lines/ spaces of the previous key, followed by those of the new key. Sometimes you will see accidentals in the measure(s) before a key change, this is a modulation to the new key. (This can also be indicated by a director screaming "Key change" or something similar when someone misses it.)
Best to you,
Jim
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Author: deebee
Date: 2000-12-30 11:35
...following on from Pam's posting above...
"BEAD, Girl's Chief Favourite"
This mnemonic tells you the order of flats. For example -
...the three flats in a key signature will be B-flat, E-flat and A-flat;
...six flats: B-flat, E-flat, A-flat, D-flat, G-flat and C-flat...etc.
(The sharps are in reverse order - I'm sure somebody has an equally loony mnemonic for that 8^)
deebee
(with thanks to Vic Grieve, of Hornsby Concert Band, circa 1971, for that WIKKID phrase!!)
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Author: Dee
Date: 2000-12-30 13:32
As far as repeat signs go.
If you have just the one repeat sign (the dots are to the left of the bar). You have to go all the way to the beginning of the piece not just the beginning of the line.
If you are only supposed to repeat a section, there will be a repeat sign at the beginning and end of the section. The beginning sign has the dots to the right of the bar. The ending sign has the dots to the left of the bar.
A music theory book isn't quite what you need. Instead a book on reading music or music notation would be more appropriate and I strongly recommend that you get one from the library. Theory and notation are not quite the same thing as theory will go into the construction of music (harmony, history, and so on). So if you get the wrong one it won't help.
I was attended a talk given by a working novelist and she addressed the subject of research for her novels. She suggested start with the children's section to get basic, easy to understand books on various subjects. Often books in the adult section get too deep too fast. Why not give it a try?
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Author: jerry
Date: 2000-12-30 14:42
WOW! Great info - Thanks. Never expected this kind of response. It has been very helpful - now I need to figure out what to do with all this. A lot of it I have read and some of it didn't make sense, so a new perspective really helps. Much of the standard notation is graphically represented in my "munuscript" music paper book, but not explained in depth. Therefore I miss a lot. A case of too much info comming too fast for the little gray cells to comprehend.
Thanks again.
Oh! one other question.............never mind, I'll start a new thread.
HNY to all.
~ jerry
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Author: Ken Rasmussen
Date: 2000-12-30 16:56
Jerry: All of the previous information also applies to music that is not written. If there are tunes that you know without reading, play one, and see what note the piece seems to resolve itself on. That is the tonic note. That is what key the tune is in. Now take that tonic note and construct a major scale from it. (All major scales have the same relationship between the notes: The interval between the first and second notes is one. The interval between the second and third is one. the interval between the 3rd and 4th is one half. The entire pattern is 1-1-1/2-1-1-1-1/2.) The notes that are in that scale should be the same notes that are being used in the tune you just played. If not, the tune is probably in a minor key, and it uses the same notes as a major scale that starts a major third above the note your tune resolved to. After learning to play scales in all keys throughout the range of your instrument you can learn to play along with recordings fairly readily. If the key of the tune seems to be eluding your fingers, just find the note the tune resolves to (the tonic), practice that scale, and go back and try the tune again.
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Author: Rissa
Date: 2000-12-30 21:19
deebee wrote "(The sharps are in reverse order - I'm sure somebody has an equally loony mnemonic for that 8^)"
My teacher taught me for sharps- Fat Cats Go Down and Eat Bananas! For flats I learned BEAD, GCF, as in GREATEST COMMON FACTOR...maybe something you remember from ALGEBRA?!
WOo, you've gotten alot of feedback..I hope all these different opinions and options don't overload you brain! :^ )
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Author: spencer
Date: 2000-12-31 02:52
for the sharps i use "fat cats go down alleys eating birds."
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Author: Rene
Date: 2001-01-01 18:48
The key for sharps is half a note higher than the last # given. (e.g. F#, C#, G# is G#+1/2=A major).
The key for flats is the last but one b given (e.g. Bb, Eb, Ab is Eb major).
But a single Bb is F major and no key is C major.
Or it can be the parallel minor, which is three half notes lower (C major = A minor).
I really learned Fis, Cis, Gis, Dis, Ais, and B, Es, As, Des etc. (in German). Does not sound too hard to learn. One can also compute them, going 5 notes up for any new sharp (C major, G major, D major etc, adding F#, C# etc.), and going 5 notes down for any new flat (C major, F major, Bb major).
Rene
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