 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: LgClarinet
Date: 2010-09-17 07:14
Hey guys,
I need some help figuring barrels.
My set of clarinets (Bb and A) right now play wonderfully, however I need to figure out a way to tune the 12ths. My horns are Buffets, and, unfortunately, they suffer from uneven 12ths. The horn in its respective registers, however, is very even, it's just that the registers themselves will vary by 10-20 cents.
My low E is especially flat, and my middle A is also a tad bit flat in respect to the other clarion notes.
So, I thought that perhaps there is a barrel that may help me out. I've heard that the double taper chadash barrels are handy with this problem, but I've also heard that the Backun barrel and the Royal Cohler barrel also help. I'm not sure what I should get, as I need to get something, but I'm not sure what.
Also, would it be a good idea for me to get a slightly shorter bell to even out the E/A? And, if so, what would be a good brand to look at - the only I know of is Backun.
Thanks,
Dan
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Author: Bob Bernardo
Date: 2010-09-17 07:38
What is the rest of your setup? The bore and the length of a mouthpiece can make a huge difference. Since you are having the same issues with both clarinets I'd check out the MP. Vandorens often have the problems you are concerned about.
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Author: LgClarinet
Date: 2010-09-17 07:48
You don't say.
At the moment, a rather run-down Vandoren M30. I'm actually just about to get a Behn mouthpiece to replace it.
Would it really change that much, because when my teacher played my horn, he only verified the problems and he uses a very different mouthpiece.
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Author: Bob Bernardo
Date: 2010-09-17 08:30
From many years of doing mouthpiece work and clarinet repair, including adjusting tuning problems, I had strong vibes you had a Vandoren. My first guess was the M30, next guess was the M13. I picked the Vandoren for a reason, because it match your symptoms.
Take your time finding a good mouthpiece. Don't jump on the first one you play. You can email me off the forum for suggestions regarding finding a mouthpiece that fits you, along with the correct barrel, if needed. Some mouthpieces cost up and over $500. Eddie Palanker once said he played a Vito mouthpiece one time and passed up buying it. He referenced that he wish he had bought it because it played so well. I found a mouthpiece that was in a bucket full of old beat up mouthpieces, perhaps 50, and I played it for 20 plus years. Eddie Palanker probably remembers the place. It was Teds Music, across the street from Peabody Consevatory. I paid 5 dollars for it. Turns out it was a Chedeville. I don't play it anymore. I really think there are better mouthpieces on the market that you can pick up around $100 or less. For the last 10 years or so great things have happened in the mouthpiece world. Bottom line, I would never go on ebay and bid on a Chedeville that will cost you about $400 or more.
Designer of - Vintage 1940 Cicero Mouthpieces and the La Vecchia mouthpieces
Yamaha Artist 2015
Post Edited (2010-09-26 09:10)
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Author: William
Date: 2010-09-17 15:09
You don't have to spend a lot of money for a clarinet mouthpiece if you get lucky and find the "right" one. That wonderful clarinetist, Emily Bernstein, who played "Viktor's Theme" in the movie, "The Terminal", played her entire career on a Woodwind G8 mpc. If a mouthpiece plays good, it is good and spending $500+ dollars for a custom mouthpiece made from reformulated "vintage" material may not guarantee the superior sound or tuning that you need. The best tuning solution may be the cheapest--use the "ear" that you were born with and be flexabile within the ensemble. Playing in tune is much better than *being* in tune :>) String players do that all the time. Tuning their strings is just for "starters"--after that, it's all by ear.
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2010-09-17 15:27
The only way you can possibly know what will work best for you will be to try different ones. With every barrel or bell you can fix one problem but it may have consequences with something else. I use the Backun bells and barrels and when I needed to raise the pitch on the break B and low E he drilled a hole in the bell to fix that problem. Bell or barrel will not fix one note, they're not that smart, they could alter a register, throat tones, break notes etc. but may alter something that's already good. My first suggestion since you live on the West coast would be to try to get up to Backuns place because he will be able to fix anything that can be fixed. If you can't do that perhaps you should contact him and ask him to send you pieces to try that might work for your problem. Other than that try to try out as many different types as you can get on a trial basis to see what works best with your equipment and the way you play. Someone else may actually voice differently than you do so only you can tell what works for you. As far as the A being a bit flat, assuming the 12th below is also flat, you may need to get that undercut to raise the pitch but remember it will also effect the 12th below the same way. ESP http://eddiesclarinet.com
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Author: Alseg
Date: 2010-09-17 19:16
Try this link to makers of barrels.
http://test.woodwind.org/Sponsors/Mouthpieces/
You mention a problem with 12ths. A barrel taper may help this.
disclaimer: I am one of the many barrel makers who post on this board
Former creator of CUSTOM CLARINET TUNING BARRELS by DR. ALLAN SEGAL
-Where the Sound Matters Most(tm)-
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Author: LgClarinet
Date: 2010-09-18 04:28
Hey guys, thanks so much for the info.
Yes, I've also been looking into a new mp, as my M30 is pretty worn down - chips in the rail and all that. That's why I've been looking into a simple Behn mouthpiece - not the vintage, but maybe the Artist series.
As for the barrels, I had no idea that Backun was only a small drive away! Anyone say 'road trip'?
I think I'll head up there, have them calibrate my instruments (as it needs to be done), check out the barrels, and see into the possibility of getting my E/A fixed, as they are unanimously low.
I really appreciate the help! If Backun doesn't work, then I suppose I may try the Chadash barrels or another on the website given to me.
Thanks everyone!
Dan
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2010-09-18 09:38
You are suggesting a shorter bell to fix flat E and A. You say middle A, which to me suggests you are talking about the throat A since that is closest to the middle of the staff (why middle B is called that). But you also say "to the other clarion notes" which suggests you are referring to a clarion A. In either case a shorter bell would not help the A. Usually when people use the / for notes it is for 12ths e.g. E/B, F/C i.e. notes that use the same fingering with the exception of the register key. Maybe you meant the low E and middle B? Not really clear. If you are talking about throat A, also worth checking the venting of the key.
A different mouthpiece or barrel might help with the registers. I've tried Buffet clarinets where a Chadash or Backun barrel helped intonation, made no difference, or even had slightly worse intonation than the stock barrel. It depends on the clarinet and the barrel and worth trying.
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Author: Vytas
Date: 2010-09-18 14:57
LgClarinet wrote:
>>>"I'm not sure what I should get, as I need to get something, but I'm not sure what".<<<
I recommend DR. ALLAN SEGAL. A lot of my customers are very happy with his barrels. http://www.clarinetconcepts.com/
Vytas Krass
Clarinet Repair
Professional clarinet technician
Custom clarinet mouthpiece maker
Former professional clarinet player
Post Edited (2010-09-18 18:18)
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Author: ddavani
Date: 2010-09-18 17:36
If you are looking into Backun, you can play as little as $185 for a ringless barrel which will help your tuning and your low notes tremendously. In addition, if you go to the factory, Morrie can be a massive help to you in picking a barrel. As for a mouthpiece, Backun just had a markdown on all of their MoBa mouthpieces, it's still a lot of money though, so maybe just look into a new Vandoren mouthpiece.
-Dave Davani
http://allclarinet.blogspot.com/
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Author: LgClarinet
Date: 2010-09-19 00:24
Ooh!
I'm sorry, I always get A and B mixed up because of the concert pitches. I accidentally transpose the note names when I don't pay complete attention.
Yes, my B and my low E are both low - they're the same 12th - so I think that either getting a shorter bell or getting a hole drilled would be my best bet.
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Author: Alseg
Date: 2010-09-19 00:57
Before you go chopping your bell down, buying a costly bell, or going on a road trip , answer one question.......What is your clarion doing? Is it sharp, perchance?
Former creator of CUSTOM CLARINET TUNING BARRELS by DR. ALLAN SEGAL
-Where the Sound Matters Most(tm)-
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Author: LgClarinet
Date: 2010-09-19 01:05
My clarion register is a tad bit sharp compared to the lower register, which is a tad flat. The E and F at the bottom are especially out of whack, losing 15 - 20 cents more than any other part. In my clarion register, everything is pretty even except the middle B, which is a bit flatter than the other 'in tune' notes which high B and C are a bit sharper. I certainly wasn't certain about getting the bell messed around with, but I had thought if it was suggested when I head up to Backun (if at this point), then I might as well go with it, considering the E and B are both flat.
In general, the clarion is sharper by just a bit than the chalameu (sp?). The E and F are the radical example of this. Throat F is low, too.
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Author: Alseg
Date: 2010-09-19 01:57
You never stated it, but I bet that your instruments are likely at least 10 yrs old. Correct? ( How can he know this?.........for he is the kwi.....nevermind)
Doesn't really matter, though. Enjoy your trip.
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