 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: chadbang
Date: 2010-09-05 23:58
Hi everyone. Now in the September of my years, I'm looking for some fun that my body can handle. I grew up playing a clarinet and my very first clarinet was a metal one. Actually, I despised that metal clarinet. The cool (and rich) kids had wood ones and here I was stuck with this lighten rod for an instrument.
Flash forward 50 years and -- still as a clarinet dixieland fan - was watching this documentary "Wild Man Blues" about Woody Allen. I watched a scene where he was in Paris trying to buy a Buffet (I think) metal clarinet because it was like a favorite old musicians. Suddenly I had a great fondness for my old metal clarinet. And, hence, I'm on the search for one now.
I can't afford a really expensive model, so I've narrowed it down to three models. Either an H.N. White American Standard or Cleveland silver clarinet, or a Noblet silver model. All three seems to be relatively available at a decent price.
I was just wondering if anyone could recommend (since I never seem to be able to find these instruments in person and I'll have to buy one off the web) if they have any preference between the H.N.White American Standard or Cleveland versus a Noblet? Has anyone played these two brands?
Thank you very much for your help!
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Author: chadbang
Date: 2010-09-06 04:14
Thanks for your help! May I ask you something else? I wrote the person who keeps the H.N. White website. He confirmed for me the pecking order of the King line of clarinets. He said the Silver King was top of the line, followed by the Cleveland, American Standard and then Gladiator. That's the official order of prominence. But, personally, he said he'd never noticed much of a difference in quality between Cleveland and American Standard clarinets. Has that also been your observation? Thanks again.
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Author: jasperbay
Date: 2010-09-06 04:23
The average Noblet is probably comparable to the fairly well made American Standard student-level H.N. White in fit/finish/playability.
The H.N. White Cleveland is a cut above those horns. Every Cleveland I've owned has played very, very well; and the silver plated ones have nice, thick, quality plating. I quite often take one of their laquered brass with silver keywork models to vintage black powder rendesvous, for their more vintage 'look'. They play just as well as their silver-plated brethren, ands its fun watching people try to decide if its some kind of wierd soprano sax!
I understand that some of the early 'raised diamond' logo silver plated Noblets are fairly high quality clarinets, but have'nt played one yet. Most of the Noblets for sale are nickel plated, more for the student market, but still attractive , well built clarinets.
Clark G. Sherwood
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2010-09-06 11:17
The Cleveland metal clarinet I had, and recently sold, was silver-plated and closer in build quality (in my opinion) to the Silver King than to the American Standard. It was a very nice instrument, and in side-by-side testing with my orchestra stand-mate's wood R-13, I thought it sounded better than his clarinet.
I also play Cleveland tenor and alto saxes and they're quite nice as well.
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Author: jasperbay
Date: 2010-09-06 15:29
chadbang; The guy with the H.N. White website would probably be the "Go To" guy about those clarinets. I knew that the American Standard's probably had identical keywork to the "Cleveland", and if the quality is anywhere near the Cleveland, as he says, I'll have to add yet another metal clarinet to my 'must have' list!
If you write to him again, tell him an idiot on the Clarinet Bulletin Board (that would be me) says he's 90% sure that the H.N. White "Gladiator" is made by their cross-town rival: the Ohio Band Instrument Co. I'd be curious what he says.
I've picked up several of the OBIC 'stencils' of their "Regent" line, that appear to be very well made, with nice silver plating, but have'nt restored any of them to playing condition yet.. These stencils have logoes like "Easy Play", Wm. Lewis & Son, Odell Vega, Pitt American, H.N. White "Gladiator"(??), etc. All of these stencils appear identical, characterized by (a) nice, solid neck (not sheet metal tubing) with 2 'knurled' rings around the mouthpiece end, (b) non-crowsfoot design, like the H.N. Whites of the same era, (c) thumbrest on a short 1/4" pedestal, (d) rounded 'mushroom' shaped flange at top of non-ring tonehole, this flange is smaller that the White flange (e) heavy weight 26-27oz. (also like the H.N. Whites), and (f) the case is usually of the trapezoid shape, with non-parallel sides measuring 2- 1/2" at mouthpiece end, 3- 1/2" at bell end.
I'll post someting on the playability of these OBIC stencils this winter, when I get one repadded.
My experiences playing the "Cleveland" mirror Dave's. I've got clarinets sitting all over the place that I can pick up and play on a whim. Several times I've been surprised to look down and realize I'm playing a metal 'Cleveland', and not one of my favorite Leblanc vintage pro horns! The sound and ergonomics are that good.
Clark G. Sherwood
Post Edited (2010-09-08 16:48)
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Author: William
Date: 2010-09-06 15:59
Your story sounds very much like me--started on a metal clarinet and all the other kids had the neat wood ones (however, I'm the only one that is still playing), been playing for about 55yrs, etc. However, the difference is that I did find an old metal clarinet for recreational use. I found it in a local Buy & Sell Shoppe about 15 yrs ago and bought it for $20. It is a gold colored Nobet with a three digit serial number and grey keys. Looks rather cool and actually plays very well--good enough for my old college alumni marching band events and a few jazz gigs. It now hangs behind the bar in our rec room with a Charles Bay mpc and synthetic reed ready to play anytime anyone wants to hear a tune. No need to buy a new metal clarinet when the old ones play just as well, perhaps a lot better. Enjoy September cause well all know what follows........ :>D
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Author: chadbang
Date: 2010-09-07 04:15
" Enjoy September cause well all know what follows........ :>D"
According to Sinatra, that would be "November..."
Thank you everyone for your help. Based on your experiences, I purchased a Cleveland from a woman who had one and played it up to 10 years ago. It should arrive in a few days, but it's supposed to be in good shape. I've seen pictures and it needs a good cleaning, but I love restoring things like old furniture and electronics, so this will be my new "labor of love." I promise to treat this faithful old woodwind with care. I can't wait to get at it and deliver it some TLC. Thank you again everyone. I'll let you know how the Cleveland comes out. "Louie, this could be the start of a beautiful friendship."
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Author: chadbang
Date: 2010-09-10 08:50
Well, I got my Cleveland today and I am delighted. It is a work of art. Beautiful to look and and to hold. Balanced and weighted just right. Of course, the reeds I ordered haven' arrived, so I have to just look at it for tonight and race like mad to a music store in the morning. Only one problem, I see one pad is missing (grrrrr) does anyone know what style pads I should use on an H. N. White Cleveland? I see sets sold on ebay for Selmer, Yamaha, Vito. Is there a specific style people have found work best. Thanks again. Love my new Clarinet.
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Author: jasperbay
Date: 2010-09-10 18:33
Most of my better metal clarinets end up with tan leather pads. If you're only replacing one, I guess I'd match what type is on the rest of the horn.
Remember, when measuring for pads, that the thin-skin 'bladder' pads go by the outside-cup diameter (mm), but leather and synthetics go by inside-cup diameter (which is usually outside diameter minus 1mm)
I've picked up several metal clarinets that look like the leather pads may be original ( 50-70yrs old), that still play well. They're a little stiff, but still seat well. The bladder pads have a tough time making it past 10 yrs.
You can buy one of those pad sets on e-bay, but most of the pads in the set won't be the size you need. Ferree's Tools (Google their site) will reluctantly sell a set if you specify the sizes, costs about $20 a set. Zheng Hao (China) sells individual pads of several types (the tan leather ones they call bassoon pads) but you have to wait for the Shanghai Express to deliver them. Zheng Hao's prices are slightly less.
For a single pad, Dave Speigelthal's method of using a small dab of silicone caulk/adhesive may be the best bet, although a small piece of hot-melt glue and a butane lighter will work too, or even a small electronics soldering iron.
Clark G. Sherwood
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Author: chadbang
Date: 2010-09-11 16:02
Thank you very much again. I will look into getting a set of leather pads. I ran around trying to find some locally (Ventura/Santa Barbara) without luck. No one willing just to sell me a single pad (or pad period). Rather distressing, especially as I had jut bought $40 worth of accessories from them the previous day. But I suppose its difficult to run such a business. I'm thinking about driving to Los Angeles to try and locate some, but I can't even find a dealer of band instruments on the Web in Los Angeles. Very strange. Any one know one? To get a better look at what was going on I took off two keys. This gave me much respect for the craftsmen at H. H. White, despite being 60 year old... its disassemble like the well-oil machine it was meant to be. Such beautiful construction. Solid and perfectly machined. Everything smoothly came apart. Quality materials. I was in a tizzy to get up and running yesterday. So excited to play some notes that I just did a quick search on the web for some opinions and bought pads which I thought would reach me quickly - a set of Valentino Greenback pads. I'll keep them for emergencies once I get some leather pads. But those pads are still days away, and I wanted to hear the clarinet, so I scoured by workshop and found some foam gaskets which looked about the right thickness. I cut out an 8mm circle (not easy) and it works fine for now! I seated it with a tiny dab of E6000 silicone glue I use for leather repairs. Lucky for me, someone had suggested you could use this glue and I happened to have some around! Thanks again for your help. The Cleveland itself sounds great! The best-sounding clarinet I've owned. It's only when I trying a more complicated piece of music that the real weakness becomes apparent - ME. Cheers!
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