 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Iceland clarinet
Date: 2010-09-05 14:32
This is as bad as always from mr. Bilk. The use of vibrato and warm air sound he makes is worse than I've heard from many saxophonists that even rarely double on clarinet.
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Author: GLHopkins
Date: 2010-09-05 16:02
"This is as bad as always from mr. Bilk. The use of vibrato and warm air sound he makes is worse than I've heard from many saxophonists that even rarely double on clarinet."
Yet, millions of people know of him, and listen to him.
Can you say the same?
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2010-09-05 17:01
"A place for everything and everything in its place"
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2010-09-05 18:59
I grew up admiring Benny Goodman, I wanted to play like him and he was the reason I took up the clarinet, thanks Benny. When I would hear other old time players, not Artie Shaw or Woody Herman, I would often think, what an ugly sound. I used to think the same when Rock came out and the sax players would grind, honk and bend their tones because I played tenor at the time and worked for a more liget tone quality. I've grown up an awful lot since my young days and have learned to really love that tenor sound in those old rock tunes and even though I would hate to hear Acker Bilk play Brahms or Mozart, I still feel the same about Goodman, I love what he does with the style of music he plays. I've learned to appreciate players of other styles of music when they butcher the clarinet tone in relation to what I think is a good tone quality but I've learned to accept it in their style of music and often actually like it. I say, Go Acker Go, just don't play the classics. ESP http://eddiesclarinet.com
ESP eddiesclarinet.com
Post Edited (2010-09-05 19:28)
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Author: William
Date: 2010-09-05 19:09
He plays exactly the way he wants to and gets the musical effect he tries for--I like that (and so do the millions of his fans that made "Stranger on the Shore" a number one hit). Let's not be unkind to our clarinetist friend.
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Author: Iceland clarinet
Date: 2010-09-05 19:13
Millions of people listen to Usher for example but will people remember him and his "talent" in 50-100 years from now on like they will remember The Beatles and Elvis Presley ? Who still remembers Spice Girls or N'sync ?
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2010-09-05 19:33
Ice, i think you're missing Williams point. He plays the way he plays, you don't have to like it. He's counting his pay check all the way to the bank and has more than his 15 minutes of fame. I don't think he stays up nights crying about his career. Very few, if any, of todays players will be remembered in 50- 100 years from now. I'll get back to you on that when the times comes. ESP
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2010-09-05 19:35
I wasn't being unkind - although I personally don't like his style of playing, it works well in the right situation and this is the right situation for this style.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Iceland clarinet
Date: 2010-09-05 20:31
I would guess that most of Acker's fan are not musicians and certainly no experts in clarinet playing.
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Author: interd0g
Date: 2010-09-05 20:55
Sounds like his tip opening is around an inch and a half.
Many jazz styles were popular in UK in his time. Myself, I wanted to sound like Peanuts on the Condon jam sessions. I played with several Bilk sidemen as they circulated in the London scene and they mostly talked about Acker's prodigious drinking capability.
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Author: GBK
Date: 2010-09-05 21:27
As I've written numerous times before -
I personally like Acker Bilk. He plays music which appeals to the masses and brings enjoyment to millions of people.
Obviously a dark mellow clarinet sound is not imperative to success in the music business. He doesn't have one. So what?
If you have never heard Acker with his jazz band, watch and listen:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LW9ZF3jMx8s
...GBK
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Author: GLHopkins
Date: 2010-09-05 22:33
I grew up making fun of Acker Bilk and his recording of Stranger On The Shore. My clarinet buddies and I used to imitate him in the most awful ways, and laugh our butts off. To this day I don't care for him except for that darned recording of SOTS which I have now come to appreciate. My point is that his music is loved by more than any of us could ever hope to entertain.
Now, if you really want to talk about something totally irritating, at least to me, we could all gripe about Kenny G.
....and the royalties keep rolling in.
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Author: Kalakos
Date: 2010-09-05 23:21
I agree with GBK. New Orleans (traditional jazz) is based on a folk music genre. There are different standards in every genre of music. Therefore the "preferred" tone that clarinetists favor in classical and the music of the western world is not the only valid sound, but just one group's favored norm.
To give you an example of this, and at the risk of being kicked off the BBoard, here's another norm. We who play Greek folk music do not like the "classic" clarinet tone, probably in the same way that many will not like this example I'm going to post. But just listen to the old style New Orleans musicians, and you'll see that Acker Bilk (and Bob Helms and Willie Humphrey) are not that different from one another.
Here's the famous Halkias family: Petros Halkias with his sons on clarinets and his brother on violin. His father Periklis Halkias was a famous clarinetist who lived in New York for most of his later life.
The tune is in the genre known as "moiroloyia." No sheet music, all in the head and improvised. The melodies are ancient...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l86md5cBPtQ&feature=related
I hope you enjoyed it...
:-)
John
Kalakos
Kalakos Music
http://www.TAdelphia.com
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2010-09-05 23:27
Kalakos wrote:
> and at the risk of being kicked
> off the BBoard,
eeeeeeeeee? (as said in a rising tone by one of my best friends ... it means "I hear you, but I can't believe what I'm hearing, so I'll just ignore what you said ..." 8^) )
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Author: Katrina
Date: 2010-09-06 01:43
I love that clip, Kalakos!
I also like SOTS, the only Acker Bilk song I've ever heard. I didn't used to like it but my appreciation of clarinet playing has evolved over the last 15 or so years since I started playing Balkan folk music!
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2010-09-06 03:39
The first time I ever heard him play I didn't recognize it as a clarinet. When I realized what it was I hated the sound. But I've learned to not only accept it for the type of music he plays but actually enjoy it, in that style. I feel the same about Pete Fountain, whose sound I disliked until I learned to appreciate the style more.
I used to play recordings of different styles of music for my college students that featured the clarinet like swing, jazz, Dixie, Klezmer and yes, Greek so they could hear how different the clarinet can sound outside of classical. There's a whole different world of clarinet sound out there and you don't have to like it to appreciate it. ESP
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Author: Kalakos
Date: 2010-09-06 05:07
eeeeeeeeee? (as said in a rising tone by one of my best friends ... it means "I hear you, but I can't believe what I'm hearing, so I'll just ignore what you said ..." 8^) )
:-)
Just kidding Mark!
John
Kalakos
Kalakos Music
http://www.TAdelphia.com
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Author: justme
Date: 2010-09-06 05:14
Kalakos said:
"Therefore the "preferred" tone that clarinetists favor in classical and the music of the western world is not the only valid sound, but just one group's favored norm."
I agree 110% with you John!
Many people who like the "old dixieland style" prefer a bright instead of a dark sound that they strive for in classical music, as well as the different types of things that they do.
And then there is Polka, Greek, Klez, etc!
Ed Palanker, that's why I like you, you're not a snob...
Justme
"A critic is like a eunuch: he knows exactly how it ought to be done."
CLARINET, n.
An instrument of torture operated by a person with cotton in his ears. There are two instruments that are worse than a clarinet -- two clarinets
Post Edited (2010-09-06 05:15)
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Author: JJAlbrecht
Date: 2010-09-06 19:30
Come on, folks.... regardless of whether you like Blik's sound (or the Greek sound, for that matter!), anything that gets people listening to clarinetists performing, gets them buying recordings, and paying to attend concerts is a good thing. Wouldn't you agree with that, at least? And if they learn to enjoy more live, acoustic performances (as opposed to the electronic junk coming out of today's recording industry) isn't that a good thing for all of us?
Jeff
“Everyone discovers their own way of destroying themselves, and some people choose the clarinet.” Kalman Opperman, 1919-2010
"A drummer is a musician's best friend."
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Author: Iceland clarinet
Date: 2010-09-06 23:41
Old Geezer said:
"Acker Bilk is not as bad as some say...he's much worse!"
Two thumbs up for that :D
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Author: GLHopkins
Date: 2010-09-06 23:44
Iceland clarinet, we'd love for you to post your playing on YouTube so we can critique it. I'm sure we'd all be very appreciative.
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Author: ned
Date: 2010-09-07 13:56
''His music skills and technique is fine but it's just that his tone is just very bad''.................for classical music perhaps..............but great for jazz, of course!
Give over Mr Iceland, you have made your point.
As have I..............................over and out.
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Author: Carol Dutcher
Date: 2010-09-08 05:34
I really enjoy Acker Bilk, and on the clip mentioned above in the first post, it looks like he is playing the 20 key Full Boehm clarinet (the same beast I am having so much trouble with, see my psychiatric meltdown letter in Fingering!Where did they hide the C?) Anyhow nuf said, I enjoy him. I also enjoy Woody Allen, so there.
Carol
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Author: William
Date: 2010-09-08 15:29
Acker Bilk is a master at the style of music he plays. I doubt that any principal symphony orchestra clarinetists could play New Orlean's jazz correctly even if they tried. What is "good" is what's appropriate to the musical genre being played and most of us acheive proficiency in one narrow musical style--we do not have the verstatility to "do it all". What is good for classical is not also good for jazz, nor is the reverse true. Acker choose to be a New Orleans style jazz clarinetist and, while he could never win the CSO audition, he has acheived a high level of success among his own peers. For anyone to say he is not "good" or even not "great" is simply stupid and snobbish. I love the way Duke Ellington said it, "If it sounds good, it is good". And Acker always sounds good playing New Orlean's jazz. Case closed..........
BTW, I just checked Acker's Face Book page and he has 623 fans, many of which are some of the most accomplished classical clarinetists in the world.
Post Edited (2010-09-08 16:08)
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Author: graham
Date: 2010-09-08 16:53
Leaving aside whether he is good or bad (which is in my view entirely subjective) I personally cannot hear any similarity between his sound and that of early "New Orleans" players.
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2010-09-08 17:45
Acker sounds like Acker, Julian sounds like Julian, Emma sounds like Emma, Sabine sounds like Sabine (repeat ad nauseum)...they all have their distinct voices and sounds, and that's what proves the versatility of our instrument. (It'd be a tad more difficult to spot the player behind the keyboard, innit?)
I'd say it'd be a mighty boring place where everyone would sound the same, regardless of whether that matches our idea of "good sound" or not.
--
Ben
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Author: beejay
Date: 2010-09-10 12:24
I think some of us should try to condemn a little less and understand a little more.
Acker Bilk was one of the best of a plethora of young British clarinettists in the 1950s, many of them inspired by George Lewis, who made several trips to Europe with his band.
While the BBC thought that the likes of Sid Phillips and Edmundo Ross were the height of cool, everyone in my group of friends preferred the traditional jazz bands like those of Ken Colyer and Chris Barber.
My favourite British player, then and now, was Sandy Brown. But if today I dream of playing like Marcellus, there was a time when I dreamed playing like Bilk, Terry Lightfoot, Sandy Brown and, yes, George Lewis, whose Jazz at Vespers still has pride of place in my collection.
I don't like Stranger on the Shore, which I imagine was an attempt to emulate the enormous commercial success of Monty Sunshine's Petite Fleur. It made Acker Bilk's fortune, and good luck to him, but for those who don't know the period it obscures the fact that Bilk was (and is) a fine jazz musician.
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Author: ned
Date: 2010-09-11 10:53
''Here's a Youtube clip of Acker and Julian Bliss playing a little duet...''
You have to hand it to Bilk. He's a true professional with a good sense of humor.
Who else would be brave enough to tackle a six year old prodigy with such aplomb? Bilk didn't try to out play Bliss - that'd be professional musical suicide - instead, beforehand, he announced their duet as ''Strangler on the Floor'' and in so doing placed the number in the realm of ''novelty'' and one in which he did not really have to perform (as such).
Talk about thinking on your feet - all those years of jazz improvisation came in mighty handy on this particular occasion!
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Author: donald
Date: 2010-09-11 11:47
I taught a version of this song tittled "Stanger on the shore" for many years before the misprint was pointed out by a 12 year old... I have no inclination whatsoever to emulate Acker, but certainly respect the man for his achievements and find postings that criticise him for not measuring up to the standard required for classical repertoire to be pointless, idiotic and frankly quite boring.
dn
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