 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Duff Chick
Date: 2000-12-26 17:05
Hey all, this is my first post on this board. I'm probably one of the youngest people here (I'm 13) and I just wondering about a few things.
The highest note I can reach is the F just below G4. I've been playing for about 1 and half years, would you say most clarinetists can go higher than this, considering they have had the same amount of practise? (I practise for about 1/2 hour mostly every day.)
Is it true that going from trumpet to clarinet ruins your embouchre? I play trumpet just for fun, and am worried that I might take away from my main focus (clarinet).
Thanks everyone, any other suggestions are welcome.
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Author: Ken Shaw
Date: 2000-12-26 17:21
Duffy -
Welcome aboard.
F above the third ledger line is about right for someone playing 1-1/2 years. The higher notes will come with a little more time.
Playing trumpet will definitely *not* hurt your clarinet embouchure. As long as you don't neglect your clarinet playing, playing another instrument will only make it better.
Best regards.
Ken Shaw
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Author: Liesel
Date: 2000-12-26 17:39
I'm glad I read that, because I was going to learn how to play trumpet for fun but people warned me that it will ruin my clarinet embouchure, and my main instrument in college will be clarinet. I guess there could still be some effects but as long as they're not too big it shouldn't be too much of a problem.... Maybe I will learn trumpet after all....
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Author: ron b
Date: 2000-12-26 19:54
Nobody ever suffered from playing more than one instrument. Many people I've known play brass, reeds, percussion and strings - one, any or all of those. Some of them get good enough at their second 'fun' instruments to double on them. The one thing that ability has done for them is to give them a deeper appreciation for those who 'specialize' at the other instruments. That's not a bad thing.
ron b
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Author: Anji
Date: 2000-12-26 21:00
DC -
The only real hang up in playing a second instrument will be the amount of rest between sessions.
Over playing tends to playing "Pinched" or otherwise compressing the lip when the embouchure can no longer be supported.
Any musical experience adds to your arsenal of skill.
If you approach musical training as an athlete, recognize rest as an essential part of your regimen.
anji
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Author: William
Date: 2000-12-26 21:41
Welcome!!! Playing the trumpet will not harm your embouchure, but someday, in your future career as a clarinetist, I would recommend that you learn to play saxophone (start with the alto) and flute. Many "professional" theater gigs call for those doubles. The most important thing, however, is to have fun. Don't be concerned about being better than everyone else or even making first chair--just be the best that you can and be satisfied with what you can do. As for range, high F is pretty good right now, but you will want to extend upward to high F# and G. My playing range goes to double high C, but I have been playing for many years--your high notes will come with practice, experiance and necessity. FYI--my secondary instrument in music school was the "french" horn, but I also had to learn the stringed instruments as well as keyboard (piano to you computer nerds). Good luck, welcome, and good clarineting.
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Author: Julia
Date: 2000-12-26 23:38
Ken,
The F below G4 is the F above middle C, not high F. The F you're talking about is F6--2 octaves higher.
Julia
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Author: jerry
Date: 2000-12-27 01:30
Ken S. Wrote:
F above the third ledger line is about right for someone playing 1-1/2 years. The higher notes will come with a little more time.
Julia Wrote:
Ken,
The F below G4 is the F above middle C, not high F. The F you're talking about is F6--2 octaves higher.
"F above the first ledger line...." Now you're getting me confused. I thought the top line of the staff (I think that's what the five lines are called) is F and this is in the clarion register. Is this not the *first* F above middle C? Is that what Julia is saying? I guess a higher F would be in the altisimo - several ledger lines above the aforementioned F - huh?
~ jerry
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Author: Dee
Date: 2000-12-27 12:04
jerry wrote:
>
>
> "F above the first ledger line...." Now you're getting me
> confused. I thought the top line of the staff (I think that's
> what the five lines are called) is F and this is in the clarion
> register. Is this not the *first* F above middle C? Is that
> what Julia is saying? I guess a higher F would be in the
> altisimo - several ledger lines above the aforementioned F - huh?
>
>
There is no standardized and accepted numbering system for the notes on instruments. So I too am very confused by Julia's description. She has not defined her numbering system. She may be numbering relative to a piano keyboard since she is using F6 as a descriptor.
However, "middle C" is defined as one ledger line below the staff. So the F at the top line of the staff is just over two octaves above middle C. Now you might ask why the C below the staff is called middle C. It is because this note is in the "middle" of the Grand Staff (treble clef plus bass clef). Even for instruments that use only one clef and stay in that clef, the method books define the one ledger line below the treble clef (and one ledger line above the bass clef) as middle C. Unfortunately, some method books don't mention it at all or skim over it so quickly that students miss this point. Then they end up referring to the C in the middle of the treble clef as "middle C," which is incorrect and confusing.
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Author: William
Date: 2000-12-27 14:39
I'm not confused. DC referred to playing F below G4 and says she practices at least an half hour nearly every day. Most beginning clarinetists that I have taught can easily play "top line" F after two months of instruction with practically no home practice. "C above the staff" is usually attained shortly thereafter. (Once a beginning clarinetist can play down to "below the staff" F, I introduce the "register" key and then teach them to "take one finger away at a time and go as high as you can" up to thumb and register key only. You would be surprized at how many beginners can reach "above the staff" A their first try.) I am confident that DCs G4 was the fourth highest G playable and that the F below that would be the "above the staff" F. Way to go DC!!!!
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Author: Dee
Date: 2000-12-27 14:53
I was not confused by DC but by Julia. Her choice of numbering of the notes was not clearly specified. I think I know what she meant but it is based on logical deduction. Afterall she refers to an F6. Well, normal charts don't show anymore than four F's available on the clarinet. So she must be using some other numbering scheme. It's unlikely that she means two octaves above "super C!"
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Author: Susan L.
Date: 2000-12-27 18:34
Maybe DC can clarify which F she was referring to.
DC,
What reed and mouthpiece are you using? These could be the problem.
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Author: Julia
Date: 2000-12-27 20:03
When I read DC's post and her reference to G4 I assumed she was using that numbering system (I.e. that which is based around the piano). On the piano, C4 is middle C (the C below the staff) Usually when someone refers to a note as G4 or F2 or F4 in this case, it corresponds with this numbering system. I think the best clarification would come from DC herself...as we do not know what system she was using, and what she meant.
Sorry for the confusion all.
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Author: Julia
Date: 2000-12-27 20:07
And one more thing I forgot to say is that the top line F is a just over one octave (not two) abpve 'middle C'. Sorry!
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Author: anon
Date: 2000-12-27 21:31
middle c = c1
3rd space c = c2
c above staff = c3
8va higher = c4
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2000-12-27 22:48
That's a very unconventional system of note numbering. C4 as middle C is conventional. Let's all use that convention when communicating - it will make lif <b>much</b> easier.
C4 is the C <b><i>below</i></b> the treble clef.
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Author: Duff Chick
Date: 2000-12-27 23:46
I meant the F an octave above the F on the top of the staff. I kinda exaggerated when I said I practised every day for about a half an hour- I practise when I can (every two or three days for about 30 minutes) so I suppose I could be more serious about it. I have been able to play the clarion range for at least a year, but I have just started to attempt to play the high range recently. I'm in 8th grade, and most people can't play the clarion region yet! Actually, I only know two people that can, and it took them forever to be able to. Right now, they can get around a G near the top of the staff, and they can't hit those notes even close to 100% of the time. I'd like to be able to get up to a high C, the highest(?) clarinet note, but that will come with time. Thanks for the comments!
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Author: Duff Chick
Date: 2000-12-27 23:47
Oh, and to answer what someone asked, the mouthpiece and reeds I use are actually quite crappy, I'm sure with proper reeds & mp, my sound could become much better.
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Author: Dee
Date: 2000-12-28 02:40
Duff Chick wrote:
>
> I meant the F an octave above the F on the top of the
> staff. I kinda exaggerated when I said I practised every day
> for about a half an hour- I practise when I can (every two or
> three days for about 30 minutes) so I suppose I could be more
> serious about it. I have been able to play the clarion range
> for at least a year, but I have just started to attempt to play
> the high range recently. I'm in 8th grade, and most people
> can't play the clarion region yet! Actually, I only know two
> people that can, and it took them forever to be able to. Right
> now, they can get around a G near the top of the staff, and
> they can't hit those notes even close to 100% of the time. I'd
> like to be able to get up to a high C, the highest(?) clarinet
> note, but that will come with time. Thanks for the
> comments!
With proper instruction, anyone should be able to get to the G that is the 4th ledger line above the staff by the end of the second year. Unfortunately most school programs do not provide the proper instruction and that is why most of the rest of the students are still stuck struggling away in the clarion. They may have technique problems or they may have equipment problems but with no one to really work with them one on one, they may not be able to figure this out.
For notes above the 4th ledger line G, I strongly suggest waiting for a couple more years. Work hard and diligently on learning all that you can about technique, breath control, embouchure, reeds, and mouthpieces before attempting to scale such heights. The items that I mention in the preceding sentence need to be near perfect to reliably hit the higher notes and to make them speak with good sound. The breath support and embouchure need to be not only very good but well developed and stable. Otherwise you might be able to squeak them out occasionally but will drive everyone out of the house.
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Author: William
Date: 2000-12-28 16:18
Again, any beginning clarinetist should be able to play up to C above the staff by the end of their first year of band instruction. The trick is to introduce the "upper register key" as soon as they can play down to F below the staff. This is usually many lessons before the average band method offically introduces "high notes." Tell your beginners to "have fun" playing these newly discovered high notes and think of them as "secondary notes" to the low fingerings they already know--its not important that they actually know the names of the sounds they are producing, but more important that they simply experiment "taking one finger away at a time (from low F with the register key added) and seeing how high you can get." Many will surprise themselves by playing immediantly up to "thumb, register key and nothing" without even knowing that it is C above the staff and "too hard for them to play." I tell them to go home and drive their parents, sibblings, pets and neighbors "crazy" by practicing their "new sounds" and most respond with enthusiasm (and I never recieved a parental complaint!). Another controversial trick is that I started my beginning clarinetists on # 2.5 reeds and graduated them to #3s in their second year of band. Good teaching and,as ever, good clarineting!!!!!!!
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