 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Iceland clarinet
Date: 2010-08-23 06:48
I was browsing homepage of the Welsh based clarinetist Leslie Craven and came across this on his page about his Leslie Craven model mouthpiece made by Brad Behn.
"Lynsey Marsh goes for the record 7th mouthpiece
Recently a delighted Lynsey emailed to tell me she is buying another two of my mouthpieces - we both believe that a mouthpiece loses something of the edge in the first six to nine months and Jack Brymer believed this also - often changing his mouthpiece to guarantee the unique Brymer "ping" in the sound.I tend to agree and many players are finding that newer mouthpieces seem brighter in sound and have more edge than the more aged ones which whilst still beautiful tend to be more mellow.IT depends on your taste as a player - Les"
I never ever noticed anything like this and find all mouthpieces play the same for some years(depending on how much you play on it) after I've gotten used to them(usually takes 2-3 weeks at most).
What do you think is any truth in this ?
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Author: bmcgar ★2017
Date: 2010-08-23 09:32
I can't imagine how anyone, no matter at what level of experience or aural sophistication, could remember the timbres produced by a new mouthpiece well enough over a course of months to be able to compare it to later timbres, especially when any change would occur gradually, as it must in this case.
Like "blow out" and a gazillion other clarinet "truths," I doubt that anyone has tested this methodically and with good experimental design--or will.
B.
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2010-08-23 14:51
This has come up several times. Here's what I wrote a few years back:
At the 1998 ClarinetFest workshop in Columbus, there was a mouthpiece makers' round table, with Tom Ridenour, Charles Bay, James Pyne, Ralph Morgan and several others. I asked them how long one of their mouthpieces would last in prime condition with daily use, and they agreed that it should be touched up after about a year.
They said that one of the signs of wear is that tongued notes in the clarion become "tender" or unstable.
Tom Ridenour said one way to tell extreme wear is to wet the lay lightly, hold the mouthpiece on the bottom of a piece of plate glass and roll it forward along the lay, looking at it from the other side of the glass. If you see circular patterns along the lay, or if there are any places where the water doesn't make an even seal, then the mouthpiece is in serious trouble.
Ken Shaw
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2010-08-23 15:34
There will clearly be a "rubbing down" of material after being whacked around by a reed over a long period of time. I see this in the "dulling" of the hard rubber or wood at the contact points along the side rails and at the tip rail.
Just how much does this actually affect one's playing is a matter of opinion. It seemed to bother me most when this fact was first brought to my attention (many, many years ago). Today I would say that you get used to a mouthpiece (hence the "warming") but the dimensional differences are fairly negligible unless you are playing ONE mouthpiece constantly for at least a good ten years or so. And then, perhaps one quick pass over sandpaper by the creator is all that it may need.
It may also be of note to keep in mind that this wear is much less so on crystal mouthpieces ....... unless they are dropped of course.
...................Paul Aviles
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Author: JJAlbrecht
Date: 2010-08-23 15:52
Yes, Paul, I would think that a player could significantly change the response of a crystal mouthpiece by dropping it. ![[right]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/smilie8.gif)
Jeff
“Everyone discovers their own way of destroying themselves, and some people choose the clarinet.” Kalman Opperman, 1919-2010
"A drummer is a musician's best friend."
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2010-08-23 16:24
I knew that it would be affected over time, I had no idea that it would be affected over one year's worth of time. I've heard of people sending mouthpieces for a touchup every few years though. Hmmm.... around 200 for a hand-faced mouthpiece, a 30 dollar touchup every year....... makes those vandoren mouthpieces look a lot better! Or a good crystal mouthpiece....
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Author: Caroline Smale
Date: 2010-08-23 19:44
Perhaps it's not relevant but I noticed that the advocator of regularly buying a new mouthpiece just also happens to sell new mouthpieces.
No problem for me, I have been using same crystal mouthpiece for 30+ years but I haven't noticed any significant changes to the various hard rubber pieces that |I have also owned for between 25 and 50 years.
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2010-08-24 00:50
When you think about it, this could be an unknown factor as to why people who try a new mouthpiece often find it "great" and "better" than their current mouthpiece. I mean, if a mouthpiece changes over time, it of course changes VERY slowly. And so we don't notice it, or remember just how GOOD it was a year or two earlier.
So maybe finding that new mouthpiece that plays so AMAZINGLY good is more of a factor that the new mouthpiece isn't worn like your current one, and so the tolerances are very high. Not so much that the new mouthpiece is better than your current model. Maybe it's just your model is OLD and worn.....
Hmmm.....
Alexi
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Author: NBeaty
Date: 2010-08-24 01:25
While it's true that mouthpieces ware over time, I'm not sure I believe that it happens often or quickly.
I have seen some pretty ugly looking mouthpieces (calcium buildup, faded, etc) that measured up to their original specs just fine. A friend of mine had an m13lyre that was pretty well worn, downright ugly from a first glance. It was measured by a very reputable mouthpiece tech (and fortunately very honest) and was perfect. It was in the mouthpiece tech's interest to say "oh, this needs updating\refacing work, blah blah blah it's worn out". The piece was in fair condition, but the facing was fine after 5 or 6 years of intense use.
I don't think mouthpiece facings change very much with use, and if well cared for should last years, not one year.
I do think a change in mouthpieces every once in a while can be beneficial. After a few years, many times we want something different in a mouthpiece than we did when selecting the previous one. The same is true for instruments. For example, my set of R13s are 10 and 7 years old (Bb\A). I have come a long way since I bought these horns and would benefit from selecting something that's more to my current style of playing.
Does that mean my clarinets have changed over the 10\7 years? Maybe the have slightly, but I doubt it. I think the player changes in more significant ways than the instrument or mouthpiece.
There is a certain amount of "honeymoon phase" with a new piece of equipment. Feeling that you've added something new to your sound (whether that's the case or not almost doesn't matter) can have a significant psychological impact on a persons playing. After a while, there can be a feeling that this piece of equipment doesn't seem to be giving that extra something in the sound it once did. A change in mouthpiece (or ligature\reed\barrel\bell) can renew that feeling of something special or new.
I seriously doubt any significant changes in the facing of a mouthpiece can happen over 6-9 months. I think it's safe to say that more changes in the mind of the clarinetist over that amount of time than physical equipment.
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2010-08-24 03:13
Many years ago my dog chewed on my mouthpiece when I left it sitting out. It definitely lost some ping at that time. Except for that I've never heard of such a thing. I can't imagine changing mouthpieces every 9 months being that no two mouthpieces are ever made exactly alike. I think that would be a nightmare. I've never heard of anyone doing that. I've heard of players changing mouthpiece often but that was because they were looking for the "perfect" one and had not found it yet. ESP http://eddiesclarinet.com
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Author: Tony F
Date: 2010-08-24 09:00
I think Mr Blumberg has it in a nutshell. With proper and timely maintenance and cleaning an instrument won't change a great deal, whereas the player certainly will over time.
Tony F.
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Author: skygardener
Date: 2010-08-24 11:09
Ed- " I've never heard of anyone doing that."
I have met one person like this. She said that she buys a new piece about once every year. When I asked why, she said that loses it's resonance.... I wonder if she swabbed the mouthpiece??? Should have asked.
As someone that makes mouthpieces myself, I can't say that a mouthpiece "loses" something, but there is a gradual physical change over time. This has a lot to do with how much one plays and how they take care of the mouthpiece- ie. cleaning habits, swabbing!!
As the reed makes direct contact with the lay of the mouthpiece there is a small amount of friction as we play and there is a change in the area that is directly contacting the vibrating reed. This is very small, and I would assume (though I have not measured) that the change slows over time- thus, the first year will have a bigger change then the second.
Although the curve of an older mouthpiece might still measure as it was originally, the area of change is much smaller than can be measured with the feeler gauges.
Also, it is a fact that the rubber surfaces will oxidize, and the oxidized portions are not as stable as the unoxidized potions and can wear away more quickly.
However, this is all on a microscopic level and there are great mouthpieces out there of all ages. So the change in a mouthpiece over time is only one of many other factors that will positively or negatively affect the way a 'piece plays.
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Author: BobD
Date: 2010-08-24 12:35
Considering the fact that arundo donax reed material takes up silicon dioxide during growth which is the same abrasive used in some sandpaper it should not be surprising that a vibrating reed could cause wear of most mouthpiece materials. Perhaps this might explain the preference for "crystal" mouthpieces which are made from silicon dioxide.
Bob Draznik
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Author: clarinetguy ★2017
Date: 2010-08-24 13:06
In the New York Times article written a little over a year ago when Stanley Drucker retired, he mentioned that he still uses a mouthpiece purchased for $6 from Leon Russianoff in 1948. Here's a link: http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=950CE2D61439F936A35755C0A96F9C8B63&sec=&spon=&pagewanted=3
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2010-08-24 13:32
Drucker's mouthpiece is a Lelandais, almost certainly on a Qualité Supérieure Chedeville blank. I'm sure he's had it touched up from time to time. GBK can certainly tell us [much] more.
Ken Shaw
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Author: clancy
Date: 2010-08-24 15:37
I met Mr Drucker last year, examined and measured his mouthpiece - it was an older B45 that Everett Matson had reworked for him. The facing was close and long, just as Everett had described to me years ago - although my sessions with Everett are slightly clouded as he always insisted that I sample his extensive whiskey collection....
Mr Drucker did not mention the Lelandais but said he used to play another piece that Matson had touched up a few times.
R Wodkowski
www.ramonwodkowski.com
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2010-08-24 16:17
I think the real question is not does a mouthpiece wear out or loss it's "edge" in a short time, less than a year or so. That's a big difference between a year or so and ten, twenty or even forty years. I played my bass clarinet MP for about 40 years and the only reason I changed is that I found one I liked better when trying some new types out at a clarinetfest. I've been using the same clarinet MP now for about 20 years and only change to that one when trying out different MPs for a student and liking it better then the one I was using before. ESP
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