 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: martin
Date: 2000-12-26 04:04
Vandoran calls its 5jb the jazz mouthpiece. While browsing the klarinet archives
I noticed a reference to the Selmer HS** as a jazz mouthpiece. Has anyone had experience with these mouthpieces? I know they both have open tips. I currenty use a Vandoran 5RV which is relatively closed. Does it really matter which one is used when playing jazz? Is there a jazz clarinet? Again can the same clarinet be used for classical and jazz?
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Author: Allen Cole
Date: 2000-12-26 04:37
It would be a good idea to be as specific as you can about what your jazz situation is. Equipment is generally not a big issue, although some things apply better to some situations than others.
Many jazz players prefer medium to open mouthpiece facings. They are fairly flexible, and have good compatibility with saxophone doubling.
Show bands and pit orchestras often include jazz situations, but are more likely to have a preference for good 'legit' capability on clarinet and flute.
Personally, I think that it's best to stick to what works for you the majority of the time. Most of the modern jazz players have good legit chops, and pretty normal equipment. I think that you're more likely to find wide-open mouthpieces and big-bore horns among the more traditional jazzers.
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Author: John Scorgie
Date: 2000-12-26 05:23
Martin --
The Selmer HS** was quite popular years ago as a pop/jazz mpce. A similar facing in the Vandoren line would be something like a B45.
The Vandoren 5J is a VERY open facing, like a Selmer F or G.
A mpce such as the Vandoren 5RV is at its best with a medium hard or hard reed while the B45 takes a medium or medium hard reed and the 5J takes a soft or medium reed. In other words, when comparing mpces, have on hand a supply of reeds of various strengths, because the reed which is just right on the 5RV will be too stiff for a 5J, and the reed which is just right for a 5J will be way too soft for the 5RV.
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Author: Bob Sparkman
Date: 2000-12-26 11:17
Hi Martin - If you want to hear a 5JB used to full jazz potential, Kenny Davern uses one, and is one of the most ebullient jazz players ever. He gets a beautiful sound out of it, using an old hard rubber Conn clarinet - quite amazing. He has several CDs on on Arbors label. A marvelous player! The Selmer HS** is quite close by comparison, and, as mentioned above, the B45 is probably a good comporomise - but do hear Kenny on that 5JB!
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Author: Anji
Date: 2000-12-26 12:33
KD is also available with the "Swedish Jazz kings" on Opus3 records.
Not only is there some truthful playing, but the recordings are faithful to the session. (No Kenny G sweetening, here.)
Opus3 records may be purchased through Albany Music Distributors
518 436-8814 (Amazon couldn't deliver). This is the sort of clarinet playing I aspire to, and my teacher steers me from..."Don't be seduced by the Dark Side, Luke."
The local gize who play jazz clarinet, including Nick Brignola tend to use the same mouthpiece in all settings and approach the reed differently.
The Community college teacher (and hot reed player) discourages equipment changes, and cocentrates on embouchure control.
anji
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Author: Fred
Date: 2000-12-26 16:33
I play a 5RV also. I bought a 5JB just to see what it would be like. To be honest, it's a lot of fun to use. I'm really not a jazz player, but I hope that someday a can at least approach being one. The open tip facilitates vibrato, which is a relatively new experience for me. It also makes it easier to attack notes in a jazz styling.
IMHO, the biggest difference with an open mp like the 5JB is intonation. You can vary the pitch SO MUCH that sometimes I come in flat when I don't want to. This is not a big issue in jazz, but wouldn't be acceptable for "straight" playing. With the 5RV, you don't have near that much latitude; either you play it right or it doesn't play at all. The 5JB also has practically no resistance - you blow and it goes.
About the horn, I believe that it is probably easier to fit into a jazz ensemble with an R-13 than it is to fit into an orchestra with a big bore Conn or Selmer. This may be because the standard sound for legit playing is more defined than that of jazz. I do think you would be at a disadvantage with one of the smaller bore horns if you were trying to project among the other players in a jazz group.
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Author: Ken
Date: 2000-12-26 19:11
Artie Shaw used to waltz into any music store, buy the first blank he saw off the shelf, take it home and sand it down with wetted emery cloth until he got the right "feel, sound and flexibility" he wanted. Moral of the story: CONCEPT and application defines style and success, not necessarily equipment. Back in the 30s-40s big bands didn't have the luxury of massive, multi-channel, close-miked sound systems where everyone was mixed to studio perfection. There was only ONE mic for announcing and for the vocalist and it was all acoustic and every man for himself. It's true the lions share of traditional jazzers use(d) big bore horns and wide open facings, especially boppers, but that was born out of necessity of the times. They were/are able to take command of their instruments and project by virtue of their own musical and physical approach.
I've run the gambit over 30 years playing the setup shell game and experimented (draining my wallet in the process) with a host of pieces (barrels and ligs): Vandoren, Casper, Gigolotti, Pomarico, Pyne, Borbek, Morgan and a partridge in a pair tree. Physics still remain constant, the more open the facing the harder the reed, the more closed the facing the softer the reed. Whether you're blowing a 50 year old tire, a melted down coke bottle, or one of Brecker's $300 laser balanced wonders, getting sucked into the science of equipment and marketing barrage is exciting and can definitely help but NOT the answer. It still comes down to the ear, head and heart and good old-fashioned hard practice, studying and listen, listen, listen. Don't get hung up on buying a host of toys and gadgets, or worse, thousands of dollars on a new horn when a change of equipment might not be the root of the problem...playing is 90% mental and 10% physical anyway. <:-)))
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Author: ron b
Date: 2000-12-26 19:36
There is no magic. There is no such thing as a jazz mouthpiece.
Find a good mouthpiece and reed combination, a setup that 'feels good' and works well for you... then stick with it.
Practice thoughtfully. Practice long (tones). Practice alone. Practice with someone. Practice with groups. Practice indoors. Practice in the park. Practice at night. Practice in the morning. When you get tired - stop.
When you're rested - practice some more.
You'll wake up one morning playing any style you like as though you'd been doing it all your life.
ron b
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Author: Fred
Date: 2000-12-26 21:02
Ken, did you get turned around on your statement?
"Physics still remain constant, the more open the facing the harder the reed, the more closed the facing the softer the reed."
It's the other way around, isn't it? Or do I have my terminology mixed up?
I know that a 3.5-4.5 reed would be OK with the small tip opening on the 5RV, while the large tip opening on the 5JB would be more suited to a 2.5-3. I've got them both, and that's the way they play.
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Author: William
Date: 2000-12-27 14:48
Ken must have been "on a roll" when he mistyped the "more open the tip, the harder the reed" and etc. statement. The focus of his post was well-said and right on. Its not the "quality" of the flyrod but rather how you "wiggle your worm" that counts. How do you get to Carnegie Hall?--Practice man, practice. Happy Holidays and good clarineting.
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Author: beejay
Date: 2000-12-27 15:33
I play on a fairly open Otto Linx mouthpiece with 2.5 Van Doren reeds for jazz, and really like the sound. The setup has a nice bite on the low notes, and plays very sweetly on the highs. It makes it easier to bend and slur notes. I also have a Vandoren RV5, and the sound is altogether more disciplined. Horses for courses I guess.
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Author: Bill
Date: 2000-12-27 17:35
There is a sense in which you could say that an "open" mouthpiece is the one that is less resistant---therefore, the one for use with the hard reeds. I think that's what Fred meant.
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Author: Fred
Date: 2000-12-27 17:46
Actually, I would describe the 5JB as a very open mp, both in terms of tip openings (one of the widest available) and also in terms of blowing resistance. It uses a very soft reed ~2.5-3. Perhaps our ways of expressing a playing experience differ.
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Author: William
Date: 2000-12-27 18:32
Open tip mp=need softer reed
Close tip mp=need harder reed
It's as simple as that!!!!
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Author: Ken
Date: 2000-12-30 19:21
Thank you people, I stand corrected, other way around on the tip/reed strength. Gotta hire me a new proofreader. <:-))
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