 The Clarinet BBoard
|
Author: edk312001
Date: 2006-03-31 02:43
recently,my conductor had a comment on my crystal mouthpiece,po marico..ruby version..he said i won't be able to play well on classical piece with this mouthpiece..can you all give suggestions on this matter?...thank you
edo
edk312001@yahoo.com
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: sfalexi
Date: 2006-03-31 03:34
Either you sound good on it, or you don't. You (or more specifically he) cannot predict how you'll sound on something. Only way to predict it is to give it a shot. Who knows? You may sound great. Or you might not . . . . (the joy of the hunt for the perfect mouthpiece!)
Alexi
US Army Japan Band
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Jack Kissinger
Date: 2006-03-31 04:28
Is your director perhaps getting on in years? Back in the 60's and 70's glass mouthpieces were quite often associated with a "bright" sound and jazz clarinetists such as Pete Fountain. Most "Classical" clarinetists (AFAIK) generally used hard rubber mouthpieces. Maybe that's where he's coming from. Modern crystal mouthpieces, on the other hand, are actually designed more for classical playing. Having pretty much avoided glass mouthpieces all my life, I was surprised the first time I tried a Pomarico.
Best regards,
jnk
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: clarnibass
Date: 2006-03-31 04:36
Both 1st clarinetists in our philharmonic orchestra play crystal mouthpieces.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: GBK
Date: 2006-03-31 05:06
Before changing to Vandoren mouthpieces, early in his career Jon Manasse was playing on an O'Brien crystal, which he showed me after a performance at Clarinetfest in the early 90's. He may have been using the O'Brien on his excellent recordings of the complete Weber clarinet works.
Other notable clarinetists who have used crystal mouthpieces:
Gino Cioffi, Robert Marcellus and Rosario Mazzeo.
...GBK (who has used the same pair of crystal mouthpieces for over 30 years)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2006-03-31 15:34
Alexander Williams played a crystal mouthiece when he was principal in the NBC Symphony under Toscanini. Listen to The Pines of Rome to hear him at his best.
Robert Marcellus was playing a crystal mouthpiece when he made the famous record of Capriccio Italien, Polovtsian Dances, Capriccio Espagnol and Dawn on the Muskva River from Kovanshchina.
You can't get any better than that.
Ken Shaw
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Chris P
Date: 2006-03-31 15:58
I used to play on a Vandoren A1 crystal (which were made by Pomarico - but Vandoren doubled the price) all the time until I sold it, and bought another one but it wasn't as good (I still have it, but have yet to find the right reed that will work with it) - but I do use a Pomarico 3 crystal on bass, and it's fantastic.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Alseg
Date: 2006-03-31 17:32
Didn't Mitchell Lurie also use one for awhile ?
Is your conductor a clarinetist? If not, why would he/she make such a stupid comment. Cioffi had a great sound. Pete Fountain has a different sound that fits what he does very nicely.
Former creator of CUSTOM CLARINET TUNING BARRELS by DR. ALLAN SEGAL
-Where the Sound Matters Most(tm)-
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Chris P
Date: 2006-03-31 18:15
As I've only recently heard a fragment of Gino Cioffi's sound (and to call his playing sublime in this piece is an understatement), I think the case is closed as far as the fact that crystal mouthpieces can be used for classical works - why would they make them if they don't work?
I used my original A1 crystal for my Grade 8 and college performances - playing Weber, Stanford and Pierre-Max Dubois pieces, as well as doing the Mozart and Richard Strauss 13 wind pieces where it did it's job as good as I expected it to do - even with the plastic Bari reed I used with it back then!
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: donald
Date: 2006-04-02 08:17
just the other day a pro player from an international orchestra was telling me that she has heard Jon Manasse play solo several times, and while his tone got the thumbs up, in her opinion it sounded best when he was using his old crystal mouthpiece (this is, of course, a matter of opinion, but at least is a fairly good indictaion that he used a crystal mouthpiece for classical music, and did not sound BAD)
donald
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Chris P
Date: 2006-04-02 13:13
I tried my A1 crystal with a V12 2.5 reed - and although the reed was a shade on the soft side it did have the ease of playing and the fullness of tone I could have wished for - so it looks like I've got it sorted where finding the right reed for this mouthpiece goes. Maybe a 56 Rue Lepic 3 would do the trick.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: TonkaToy
Date: 2006-04-03 20:06
First off, your conductor may, in fact, be an idiot. It does sometimes seem to be an occupational hazzard.
Secondly, as others have pointed out, many fine orchestral clarinetists use or have used crystal mouthpieces. To add to the list, both of my teachers, George Silfies of the St. Louis Symphony and Bob Listokin at the NC School of the Arts played crystal mouthpieces. George played an O'Brien and Bob a GiGi.
Conductors, sometimes I don't see how some of them can get through the day without hurting themselves.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Don Berger
Date: 2006-04-03 21:50
I've never observed any significant diffs between GOOD HR and glass mps of comparable lays for either class. or jazz. I have several of both, but accept the fragility/care of glass for its ?lesser wear + appearance ! Don
Thanx, Mark, Don
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Chris P
Date: 2006-04-03 22:25
The Vandoren A1 I have works well with the larger bore Selmers, and suited the B&H 1010 as the bore on this A1 is 15.2mm. Though on my Series 9 set I do have to use the 68mm barrel pulled out a bit as it plays sharp in comparison to my M15.
I think I might as well get plenty of mileage out of this A1 crystal this week as I'm doing 6 performances of 'Annie' starting tomorrow evening (playing Reed 2 - flute/clarinets(Bb & A)/alto/bari)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Arnoldstang
Date: 2006-04-03 23:03
If you were take a poll of all undergrad clarinet majors in the US I believe you would find there is not an abundance of crystal mouthpiece users at the present time. I guess from this perspective you could see some merit in your conductor's words. .....some merit....
Freelance woodwind performer
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: cigleris
Date: 2006-04-03 23:28
Found the crystal mouthpiece makes the chops tired, couldn't do a Mahler symphony right through without being tired.
Peter Cigleris
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: ElBlufer
Date: 2006-04-04 04:54
I am chiming into this topic as a new crystal mouthpiece player. I currently play a Pomarico Emerald M in my band, and my director likes my tone. This mouthpiece works well for me, although it is harder on my chops, and I think that everyone should have the opertunity to try a crystal mouthpiece.
My Setup:
R13 Clarinet (Ridenour Lyrique as my backup/marching instrument)
Walter Grabner K11 mouthpiece
Rico Reserve 3.5's
Bonade ligature
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Jobsys
Date: 2006-04-05 16:41
Pomerico ruby mouthpiece plus
Optimum ligature
plus Rico Royal 2.5 reeds
= a brilliant tone and clear articulation.
No more schizo worries over stuffy Vandoren reeds and having to pick the best of a bad bunch.
If you are getting the sound that you want why listen to anyone else?
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Chris P
Date: 2006-04-05 21:44
I think if I was to buy a Pomarico crystal I'd probably go for the Nigun judging by the tip opening - but I'd try the other ones as well.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Ameribritalian
Date: 2010-08-15 19:59
Crystal mouthpieces got a bad rap in the 50ties by way of Gino Cioffi. Glass mouthpieces have had a lot of influences from Italy where Gino came from and where alot of players use these mouthpieces. I know this because my father studied with Gino. He had a nice sound however he was accused of being flat on many occasions and subsequently was release from the Boston Symphony Orchestra. There are recording that can be heard one the Tcaik. Symphon where you can hear Gino being flat in the throat tones. In truth, it was the way Gino positioned his embouchure that cause the flatness not the mouthpiece itself which lends itself to beautiful bell and dark sounds, ( I use to play one). Not to take away from Gino, besides his issues with intonation he was a legendary musician who's technical abilities on the clarinet were second to none. One story that I've heard was that the BSO was trying to remove Gino so they had him audition again. He came in without music, they asked him why and he stated "what do you want me to play?" Whatever they asked him to play he did by memory!
He was old school and there are none left like him.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Chris P
Date: 2010-08-15 21:20
It was a revellation that when I first inquired about Gino Cioffi on here (after hearing a BSO/Munch recording of Dvorak's Cello Concerto on the radio) I found out he not only played on large bore Selmers with 19 keys and 7 rings, but he also played with a crystal mouthpiece - pretty much the same configuration I played on when I took things seriously.
Since then I've managed to buy a matching (consecutive serial numbers) set of Selmer 9* clarinets that once belonged to him from one of his former pupils, and these are a set of clarinets that I treasure for this connection.
And from what people have told me about him, I only wish I could have met him.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
Post Edited (2010-08-15 22:12)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: MarlboroughMan
Date: 2010-08-15 21:41
Chris,
Thanks for sharing this.
One of my most significant teachers was Achille Rossi, long of the Indianapolis Symphony, who had been a student of Gino Cioffi, and like Cioffi played old large bored Selmers (Rossi's were "Full Boehm" I believe). I had the opportunity to play them once as a grad student--they were huge, strong instruments.
Each lesson with Mr. Rossi was a tutorial in Cioffi's methods (he always gave credit and quoted the master), and despite my having studied with other great teachers, never did I learn so much about phrasing and the practical aspects of orchestral precision than in those years.
It's great to hear of players still influenced by this tradition.
(By the way, I won my first orchestral job playing on a Pomarico Crystal).
******************************
The Jazz Clarinet
http://thejazzclarinet.blogspot.com/
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: 2cekce ★2017
Date: 2010-08-16 00:24
I have tried the pomarico glass and although its intention as I gathered from the info regarding it as a jazz preferred, I did like the brightness it delivered, I'm guessing due to its more open chamber. I tried it through wwbw and not a local since its not available locally. It had a small imperfection in the chamber and therefore did not respond well in all registers. I got rid of it but the moral of the story is It blended well with the orchestral playing as well as the jazz playing that I do and no one noticed a difference, I think your conductor just doesnt appreciate clarinetist in all their glory.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2010-08-16 02:13
Michele Gingras, a superb player, has played on a crystal mouthpiece for many years. Her tone is right down the middle, neither too bright nor too dark, and her intonation is perfect.
http://arts.muohio.edu/faculty/gingram/Site/HOME.html
Ameribritalian -
Where did you ear that Gino Cioffi was forced out in Boston? I have read that his health failed. Sherman Friedland was a Cioffi student who has written a lot about him. He should know. http://clarinetcorner.wordpress.com/
Cioffi's recording of the Brahms Sonata # 2 is very out of tune, but he was amazing in the Tchaikovsky 5th and the Strauss serenades.
Ken Shaw
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: AJN
Date: 2010-08-16 05:09
Herb Blayman during his prime years in the Met Orchestra played crystal mouthpieces that were made especially for him by O'Brien. He sounded pretty darned good, if you ask me.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: sonicbang
Date: 2010-08-16 13:23
I had a short period when I used a pomarico which I bought at the Frankfurt Musikmesse. I chose that mp from nearly 30 pieces, and I was amazed (at least for a week:). After a month I noticed that my embochure started to change. Before that it had been stable for at least 4 years. Additionally I always had an even sound no matter how many hours I practised (2-6). That could sound good, but in fact the mp tuned in an average, medium sound ALWAYS. I think this is the main advantage and the main drawback too. When I put down the crystal and started to use HR mp again my sound was terribe for a few days, but I cured my embochure, and after that I realised that HR can produce much more colour in my tone.
The end
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: RJShaw0
Date: 2010-08-17 07:45
I currently use a Pomarico Nigun (orange) Crystal, and to me, nothing else comes close. I play probably 90% classical and it sounds great. It certainly gives a very centered and clear tone.
I use it in my orchestra and it certainly gives me the dark tone that I am looking for.
Although, the crystal may not suit everybody, they are definately good for classical, unless you want really dark tone, in which case, go German.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: MarlboroughMan
Date: 2010-08-17 13:54
It's fascinating that you'd mention "go[ing] German" as a next step, because that's what I ended up doing.
I used three different Pomaricos earlier in my career, and a Mitchell Lurie Premium crystal mouthpiece for my Bass. It was the clarity and depth that drew me to them.
Eventually, these were all put aside for Wurlitzers (along with boxes of mouthpieces and barrels that had been a constant frustration and money pit for years), though it wasn't so much a matter of darkness, but a sense of ease combined with flexibility, power, and what I would call a "spherical" sound that was never possible on other instruments.
Still, looking back to pre-Wurlitzer days, the crystals were my favorites: the only time I approximated anything like the sound I was looking for.
******************************
The Jazz Clarinet
http://thejazzclarinet.blogspot.com/
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: MarlboroughMan
Date: 2010-08-17 14:03
...to add another note:
I would never describe the sound of crystal mouthpieces as "bright". I think sometimes folks mix up the visual with the aural. Because it looks bright and shiney doesn't mean it sounds that way. Also, the jazz connotations....for years the most 'visible' clarinetist playing crystal was Pete Fountain, but this was not always the case, as many have mentioned regarding Cioffi et al.
I'd encourage interested people, though to really take a listen to Pete Fountain's playing and compare it to the likes of Johnny Dodds, Barney Bigard, Irving Fazola, Sidney Bechet, Michael White and other New Orleans jazz masters. You'll find his sound concept is NOT really bright in its context. Among jazz musicians, his sound is most frequently described as "smooth" "liquid" "mellow", etc., never as "bright" (which Benny is sometimes described as, and he didn't often play crystal).
Many classical players automatically think "bright" when they think "jazz", too, and this is unfortunate. But this is another topic.
******************************
The Jazz Clarinet
http://thejazzclarinet.blogspot.com/
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2010-08-17 16:00
Gosh, I sure hope I can continue to use the crystal Pomaricos I've been playing classical music on for the past 20+ years on bass, Bb and Eb clarinets.....
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: kkab45
Date: 2010-08-17 18:56
is your sound too bright? i played next to a clarinetist for 25 years who sounded great! ......i don't get it good luck and if you are happy w your sound keep it
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: salzo
Date: 2010-08-17 20:33
Quote: "Cioffi's recording of the Brahms Sonata # 2 is very out of tune,"
Yeah its pretty bad-but his recording of the trio is quite nice.
...And crystal mouthpieces are great. If you ever get in a fight, you can brake the crystal mouthpiece and use it as a weapon-similar to a broken glass bottle.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: MarlboroughMan
Date: 2010-08-17 20:39
" If you ever get in a fight, you can
brake the crystal mouthpiece and use it as a weapon-similar to a broken
glass bottle."
This will work against flute players (I've seen it done), but be careful against Bassoonists: they carry reed knives too.
******************************
The Jazz Clarinet
http://thejazzclarinet.blogspot.com/
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: ann reid
Date: 2010-09-17 20:37
Arthur Christmann required his students to use clear crystal mouthpieces in the middle '60's. Don't know if he changed later or not.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: super20dan
Date: 2021-06-20 03:49
i played a crystal obrien for 2 decades and loved it. a clumsy tech dropped it and broke it right before the biggest theatre job of my career. i had to fly to boston to get another as this was pre internet and decided to switch to rubber to avoid another trauma like this. still have it safey tucked away in its original package as it earned it right to be a keepsake trophy. it worked magic with a bari plastic reed .
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: marcia
Date: 2021-06-20 04:27
>and decided to switch to rubber to avoid another trauma like this.
Hard rubber is not immune to traumatic damage. I dropped a hard rubber mouthpiece on the floor, and a piece broke off. ![[frown]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/smilie2.gif)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: super20dan
Date: 2021-06-20 05:02
so have i -a very good early vandoren 2rv- but the xystl is so much more fraigle.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: gwie
Date: 2021-06-20 21:22
I'm always puzzled at the amount of attention conductors pay to specific hardware.
In any rehearsal that I've conducted, student or professional, there's always a heck of a lot more to be done from an ensemble and score standpoint than fussing about the gear the players are using. That is so far down the priority list, I don't think I'd ever get there!
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Chris_C ★2017
Date: 2021-06-20 23:03
The most important piece of equipment is the person blowing the instrument.
A good player can sound fantastic on the most rubbish kit. Conductors should say what sound they want, not what is needed to produce it.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2021-06-20 23:35
I've had the opposite situation when it comes to 'others' noticing equipment. I spent twelve years (many of those professionally as well as a goodly amount of time in community based groups) playing Wurlitzer German system clarinets. When I first embarked on that road I had imagined that I'd get nothing but weird looks and all sorts of questions. In all that time I was only asked about my horns only once. It was a fellow clarinetist I knew casually who also conducted community groups. As I was setting everything up (including winding the string on the mouthpiece) but before I played, the person in question sauntered up to me and said, "Hey, I didn't know you played the oboe!"
................Paul Aviles
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: super20dan
Date: 2021-06-21 01:55
once back in 80,s when i switched to alto sax for concert band from tenor and got my first pro alto but didnt yet have a good legit mpc-i showed up with my brilhart level air mpc -got the stink eye from the super pompous conductor but afterward he complemented me on getting a concert band sound out of it
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Jarmo Hyvakko
Date: 2021-06-21 04:56
The quality of crystal mouthpieces tend to vary a lot. The good ones are good, the bad ones terrible, more terrible than bad ebonites. They tend to be more out of tune than ebonites, because the mouthpiece is molded and when it cools down after molding the inner diameters change often quite a lot and thus the tone chamber is whatever it happens to be. Usually every crystal mouthpiece needs refacing. But if you find a good one it surely is unique!
Jarmo Hyvakko, Principal Clarinet, Tampere Philharmonic, Finland
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: super20dan
Date: 2021-06-21 16:14
i agree no 2 xystl,s are exact same . neither of my obrien ,s i bought to replace my beloved played as good .
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Chris P
Date: 2021-06-21 20:07
It took me an age and a half just to decipher that 'xystl' means crystal.
Why can't people just spell words properly instead of using abbreviations or acronyms that are open to all manner of misinterpretations or make absolutely no sense whatsoever?
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Chris_C ★2017
Date: 2021-06-21 22:26
What are "crystal" mouthpieces actually made from? From some of the posts above, I deduce that it is moulded glass... and of course glass doesn't have a crystalline structure, but is technically an amorphous liquid (with time constants in decades).
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Chris P
Date: 2021-06-22 02:22
Pomarico ones are made from high quality glass as they have no tint (and Italians are famous for their crystal), but O'Briens were made from much cheaper glass as they have a slight green or even a pink tint.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Matt74
Date: 2021-07-02 20:52
I wasn’t going to say anything, but… The color of glass has nothing to do with its quality. It’s simply the mineral composition.
The perception may be a hold over from the 1800s when colorless glass was less common. Colorless glass was held to be of higher quality because it was clear, especially lead glass, and that’s often what you wanted - to see through it. Lead glass was more expensive. If you look at old bottles a lot of them are “slightly colored”, and have bubbles. They’re cheap, but serviceable. Fancy cut crystal is often lead glass.
The clarity is held to be a sign of quality, especially the absence of tiny bubbles. Modern “ultra clear” glass like “Starphire Glass” is expensive. They use it for fish tanks where the color or clarity of standard glass begins to show because of the thickness. Modern window glass is often green if you look at it from the edge. The consistency of color would be an indicator of quality because it would indicate consistent composition and manufacture.
IDK if any particular glass kinds of glass are better for mouthpieces. IDK if O’Brien used inferior glass. They do look like inferior glass, but they’ve been around for a while. Pomarico does sell different colored mouthpieces, and they look very pretty on the website.
- Matthew Simington
Post Edited (2021-07-02 20:55)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Chris P
Date: 2021-07-02 22:20
In terms of the mouldings, O'Briens aren't anywhere near as nicely moulded as Pomaricos if you look at the surface - they're more like mass produced cheap glass bottles by comparison to Pomaricos which have a much smoother and uniform finish. I have a Clarion HS** one and also did work on an HS* and both were of the same general quality made with green glass which isn't as high quality as all the Pomaricos, Vandoren, Mitchell Lurie and Lucien ones I've seen.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: super20dan
Date: 2021-07-03 01:12
i had a conn crystal that played very well but of course broke it, still have the broken peice to remind me never to buy crystal again. esp after the broken obrien fiasco. i spent big $ for a vandy crystal bass but didnt like it . sold it before it got broken lol. bythe way the conn one says made in italy -prob a pom stencil
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
The Clarinet Pages
|
 |
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
