 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Franklin Liao
Date: 2010-08-17 13:04
The previous thread about Fiberglass has made me gotten back to the path for a C clarinet once again, following having Omar's Forte C and deciding that I liked what the pitch could offer.
I have contacted Alastair Hanson to have him construct T5s in C, with him daring to try this in Grenadilla, Acetal and ebonite. I think this might be the only way to see that material question done with a good degree of control (all of these clarinets are basically machined using CNC).
In the meantime, I would like to hear about the following:
1: Any such thing as a C clarinet that will be about as even in resistance as what you find in entry professional horns>
2: Any lead about Concerto II/ Opus ever made in the key of C?
3: Where does Patricola and other custom handmade stand in terms of workmanship?
4: Any clue as to where live samples of Stephen Fox's clarinets might be sighted around Vancouver BC? This I state with interest in particular to C clarinets.
5: Has anyone ever gotten ebonite clarinets where the keyworks have been tarnished?
Edit: I feel that I am duly unqualified to actually give the inevitable play comparison when it comes down to material differences affecting tone, so methink I need to find some volunteers for this mad quest...
Post Edited (2010-08-17 13:06)
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Author: MarlboroughMan
Date: 2010-08-17 13:39
Wurlitzer offers a Reform-Boehm clarinet in C, made of properly aged, treated, and hand-selected wood.
http://wurlitzerclarinetsamerica.com/products/clarinets.html
I would not be able to tell you how the resistence compares to "entry professional horns" as the bore is a German bore and therefore requires a different mouthpiece, embouchure, and air concept. I can assure you, however, that they are made to the same exacting standards that all Wurlitzer's hand crafted clarinets are, and come complete with the low E/F improvement now standard on all Wurlitzer Artist Model 185 Reform-Boehms.
[Disclosure: I am employed by Wurlitzer Clarinets America]
******************************
The Jazz Clarinet
http://thejazzclarinet.blogspot.com/
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2010-08-17 13:55
Franklin wrote: "I have contacted Alastair Hanson to have him construct T5s in C, with him daring to try this in Grenadilla, Acetal and ebonite. I think this might be the only way to see that material question done with a good degree of control (all of these clarinets are basically machined using CNC)."
AFAIK, even CNC will cut different materials to slightly different dimensions, depending on the physical properties of the materials - the way they cut.
Also, do you intend comparing the general acoustic properties of these materials, or will you just be comparing the acoustic properties of the different surface finishes? How will you know which of these two you are comparing?
And in your double blind testing, how are you going to eliminate the factors of density and heat transfer, and surface texture that the player can feel, and may be influenced by.
Unless these issues are addressed I'm not sure the results will demonstrate or prove much at all.MarlboroughMan wrote:
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2010-08-17 14:05
Gordon (NZ) wrote:
> Franklin wrote: "I have contacted Alastair Hanson to have him
> construct T5s in C, with him daring to try this in Grenadilla,
> Acetal and ebonite. I think this might be the only way to see
> that material question done with a good degree of control (all
> of these clarinets are basically machined using CNC)."
And I assume Fraklin is paying for all these? "Daring" someone to make them without paying is actually a bit rude, so I hope Franklin has some coin ...
> AFAIK, even CNC will cut different materials to slightly
> different dimensions, depending on the physical properties of
> the materials - the way they cut.
Sure will - you need different tools & speeds to cut different material, and plastic can be problematic to machine directly to high tolerance; machinability doesn't always correlate with high dimensional tolerance. CNC (Computer Numerical Control) implies that operations you programmed are repeatable to a high degree of precision, not that the operations you've programmed are correct for the material.
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Author: Franklin Liao
Date: 2010-08-17 14:13
Well, the choice of word is a bit crude on my part, but it is very surprising that there is any individual that would offer this method to better tackle the issue regarding material. Even I find myself a little retarded for opening my pursestrings over this when in fact I am only a beginner in the horn...
To be honest, satisfying my own personal preference is rather simple. I would not need a double blind test since all I really would fall upon would be my self bias. It is however a totally different story when a more impartial assessment could be made out of the samples.
I am actually very eager to see the degree of variation between each of the completed samples. dimensional tolerance and what can be achieved in finishing, along with the relative man hours needed would serve as good things to know...
To be frank, on matter of the acoustic properties of different surface finishes, I have no clue as to what I will be staring at, so it will be a case of finding out how the surfaces would be like for myself... (as least having seen it in person). I have zero expectation in making a comparison for posterity out of the acoustics...
Having said that, I think I still rather see a true, able clarinetist having a go at it...
Post Edited (2010-08-17 14:32)
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Author: Bob Phillips
Date: 2010-08-18 15:15
Franklin's experiment is one that I'm amazed to find has not been done by leading instrument makers, or as subjects for doctoral research. The work is decades overdue.
Bob Phillips
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Author: William
Date: 2010-08-18 15:54
FWIW--I like my E11 Buffet C clarinet. It has an even scale and can be played in tune with my Bb mouthpiece set-up which makes it compatable to my R13 Bb & A clarinets. I do use a Chadash C barrel which makes a slight difference in the tone quality and tuning.
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2010-08-19 01:22
In response to Number 3,
I was at clarinetfest this year and I was VERY eager and got a chance to put my hands on some of those more custom clarinets. I played two rossi clarinets (one grenedilla, Rossi's personal horn that he had available for demoing, and his booth partner's rosewood Bb). Both played EXTREMELY well, putting Rossi in the #1 slot for my "dream clarinet".
I tried the patricolas, and while I did notice some differences between instruments, they all played VERY well. The differences I noticed were more on backpressure and overall resistance from clarinet to clarinet The resistance from note to note was even on each clarinet, and the tone was great on each. Just harder to push air through some than others. Once again, they had a GREAT rosewood clarinet, putting it at #2 desired "dream clarinet", and pretty much solidifying the fact that one day I WILL own a rosewood clarinet.
I DID try a patricola C clarinet. I've never tried a C clarinet before, but it felt pretty natural. Definitely had a very unique sound and sounded very different than a Bb. Particularly the throat tones. They weren't stuffy or anything, just, well, sounded high! My friend who has tried the higher pitched soprano clarinets, really liked Patricola's C and Eb, and if you search this board you'll see that Patricola's have very good reviews, particularly for their higher pitched instruments.
I think it's a good idea (in one respect) to have others test the clarinets for you, however please remember that while a clarinet that might be horrible for you, might be great for them. Case in point, my friend and I on a whim tried out each other's mouthpieces. He had a clark fobes, at the time I had a greg smith. My first words were, "Man. I can't play this clark fobes at all. I don't like it." His words were, "I don't like this greg smith." Our tastes were different and we did not like each other's equipment. Whenever you're testing clarinets, I think it's better to have someone as a set of EARS, not as a person playtesting clarinets. They may fall in LOVE with a clarinet, and when you try it out, you find that they key ring height is uncomfortable for you, and it's too freeblowing, and your resonant fingering for Bb makes it sound like crap. All things that the other person may have preferred.
If you can and have the time, when you're ready to try instruments, bring a digital recorder, and set it up a few feet away. Do an initial elimination round getting rid of clarinets that obviously won't work for you. Play the rest, remembering which order you played them in, then listen to the recordings. Whichever recording you liked the most, that'd be the clarinet I'd keep.
Alexi
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Author: Franklin Liao
Date: 2010-08-19 07:40
I think what I may do is to document the mechanical detail closeups. I don't have the equipment to check for leakages and whatnot... that I perhaps will need a tech's professional inputs.
The kind of things that I think would serve some academic purpose would be close-up shots over the surface finishes, the relative degree of finish on tone-holes between these instruments, comparison of fitting and even getting water absorption in photo. The degree of variation between samples manufactured within a close timeframe from one another out of one same design is about as reasonably close a control as a layman can get.
This way, my own total lack of playing ability would not have anything to do with taking another look at what Stephen Fox and Tom Ridenour have written about on matters composite material. Taking photos might mean that I can ask for help later on with the postmortem on the visuals.
Post Edited (2010-08-19 07:50)
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