 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2008-02-11 14:40
Has anyone compared the Backun Ringless vs the Ringless Fat Boy Barrel?
I was looking at Kessler's website for barrels and it has the ringless one described basically as a student/intermediate level, yet the Fat Boy is also ringless and is professional level (Ricardo plays it).
So what are the rings doing either way? Would the Fat Boy be better if it had rings?
http://www.SkypeClarinetLessons.com
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Author: Old Geezer
Date: 2008-02-11 15:24
Many clarinetists feel they're both ordinary...mere cosmetics to lure the inexperienced and unwary!
Clarinet Redux
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2008-02-11 16:19
The fatboy is made with more wood which would help to stabilize the temperature change in it. It isn't cosmetic, but functional.
I sat in Backun's office for more than 5 hours trying barrels and bells a couple of years ago. My wife was there to listen also (she's a saint for that one....) and there was a difference in the wood materials sound.
But I would wonder what the difference between a student barrel and a professional one would be if the interior dimensions are equal (or are they?) - I'd assume that they are.
This isn't a do you like Backun barrels or not, it's a "what's the difference with a ring or not".
http://www.SkypeClarinetLessons.com
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Author: Alseg
Date: 2008-02-11 17:24
Why not ask Morrie Backun that question since you already had access to him .
You could also ask other makers of custom barrels. There ARE others.
Disclaimer: I am one of the others mentioned above.
Former creator of CUSTOM CLARINET TUNING BARRELS by DR. ALLAN SEGAL
-Where the Sound Matters Most(tm)-
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Author: Brenda Siewert
Date: 2008-02-11 17:27
David,
Yes, I have both types of barrels as well as the traditional one. I really like the fat boy (although it doesn't fit in the barrel hole in my case). It has a more substantial tone (it is also heavier). I found the claim that it holds the tuning longer to be true.
Of the three styles I really prefer the fat boy.
I'm using a Backun mouthpiece and bell along with the Backun barrels on my Buffet R-13. They also work exceptionally well on the Opus II.
I think Dave would let you try some on approval and see for yourself. If not, Morrie certainly would.
I would also like to add that Allan Segal made a similar barrel to the fat boy for me in cocobolo and it is a wonderful barrel. So, there are options. Try both.
Post Edited (2008-02-11 19:10)
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2008-02-11 18:29
That's cool that Alan makes the wider barrel also!! I've got a set and several spares so personally I'm set, but want to have more variety for students to try so that they can get an idea of what a non stock barrel is all about. Typically it can be a hard sell for a young student (8-9th grade for instance) to upgrade to a high level barrel, but when the parents hear the difference it makes it a lot more realistic.
Allan, what piece is that piano playing on your site?
I bought an Eb Clarinet a while back with one of Allan's barrels on it and the work was stunningly beautiful. He is on my short list for recommendations of quality work.
http://www.SkypeClarinetLessons.com
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Author: Alseg
Date: 2008-02-11 20:01
David, I believe it is an excerpt from Robt Schumann Scenes from Childhood
The pitch has somehow been skewed by the website server....believe me, the piano IS in tune (I know cuz I pay the tuner)
Former creator of CUSTOM CLARINET TUNING BARRELS by DR. ALLAN SEGAL
-Where the Sound Matters Most(tm)-
Post Edited (2009-10-05 20:45)
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2008-02-12 02:42
Hi all, I thought I'd add my two cents, maybe only one. I use Backun bells and barrels on both my Bb and A R 13s as well as my Bb Signature. I've tried dozens of Backun's barrels when I picked out the ones I own at various times. Fat boys, rings and no rings. All the one's I now own have rings but I choose them because I thought they sounded the best and were the best in tune but my finalist were all three types. I'm not sure why he calls the ones without the bands for students because I really liked many of them more than many of the others. I think it's just a like or dislike thing, much the same as trying mouthpieces and choosing one over another, it's just a best fit that counts.
A few of my colleagues are now using Chadash barrels without rings so I must assume, at least in their opinion, that the lack of the ring makes them better than those with the ring, although his rings are the metal ones as in the standard barrels. Anyway, forget student, ring, and fat boy, anyone looking at his barrels should try them all and pick the one that sounds and tunes the best if. ESP
www.peabody.jhu.edu/457
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Author: Chris22311
Date: 2008-02-12 14:31
I am assuming Mr. Palanker is referring to Steve Barta in reference to one of his colleagues using chadash ringless barrels. It seems that custom barrel makers around the world are finding ringless barrels to be "trendy".
Chris
Post Edited (2008-02-12 14:32)
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Author: Alseg
Date: 2008-02-12 16:07
Attachment: BlummyCustom.jpg (18k)
Attachment: MadeForBlummy1.jpg (17k)
OK. Since I am pushed to prove it, David this is for you.
I prefer a more esthetic barrel shape, but "custom" means custom, so using a blank earmarked for a bell, herewith is a fatboy barrel in need of a bypass procedure.
To everyone else, these barrels are meant for FUN, and they DO NOT look anything like my typical barrel.
Former creator of CUSTOM CLARINET TUNING BARRELS by DR. ALLAN SEGAL
-Where the Sound Matters Most(tm)-
Post Edited (2009-10-05 20:47)
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Author: Ed
Date: 2008-02-12 16:18
I agree to play the barrel that tunes and sounds the best. I don't know if it a "trend" as such (like a fashion statement?) to go ringless, but I think that some have indicated that they believe that there is more "ring" to the sound (no pun intended) without rings, especially metal ones. I suppose that they might be a bit easier to manufacture as well. It certainly eliminates a step or two in there. Maybe some of the barrel makers can comment on these thoughts.
Allan- I have seen fat barrels, but those look downright obese! ;-)
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Author: Alseg
Date: 2008-02-12 16:27
Ed...the intent was to totally go overboard.
Just meant to prove a point.
I prefer a more refined esthetic, but...yes, I have to adjust to trends.
Thank goodness for the classified ads.....I dont think that one would get picked otherwise.
Former creator of CUSTOM CLARINET TUNING BARRELS by DR. ALLAN SEGAL
-Where the Sound Matters Most(tm)-
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Author: Ed
Date: 2008-02-12 19:05
Yes Allan, I realized that was meant in fun. I have seen your barrels. They are really beautiful- works of art, some of the finest I have seen. I have heard very nice things about them. Keep up the great work!!
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Author: Phurster
Date: 2010-08-17 03:08
Allan,
Perhaps you could name that barrel the 'Fat Slob' barrel. The hype could mention "large, well rounded tone and projection that 'eats through' anything".
Chris.
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Author: skygardener
Date: 2010-08-17 04:35
At a clarinet festival years ago I was at a booth that had a "step by step" display of the barrel production. 1. The raw piece of wood, 2. the bore and tennons cut and 3. finally the finished barrel.
2. Had the inner dimensions cut so you could put the mouthpiece in, but the outside was still huge- about the same size of the "joke" that Dr.Segal made. However, when people tried it, it was agreed that THAT barrel was the best of all of them. Despite being on the ugly side, it had the best center and stability of all. I offered to buy it several times- deep down, I still want it.
From the same maker, he had three models of barrels, but they were all the same dimensions, internally, but they only had different external dimensions. None had rings, and all were made of grenadilla.
They all had different tonal qualities.
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Author: Barry Vincent
Date: 2010-08-17 06:06
Would Tom Ridenour's fat barrels be in the same classification as the fat barrels already mentioned ?
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Author: L. Omar Henderson
Date: 2010-08-17 12:12
As with most clarinet parts - e.g mouthpiece, barrel, bell, etc. design (in this case the end reamed shape of the bore) trumps material or external shape. Allan has made several custom barrels for me including a Fat Boy and they all are superb. As with custom mouthpieces, they too all sound a little different and it depends on my venue and mood as to which one I'll use.
L. Omar Henderson
www.doctorsprod.com
(Disclaimer - I paid for the barrels)
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