 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: graham
Date: 2010-08-16 07:20
I was playing clarinet quintets yesterday (i.e. string 1/4 + clarinet) and noticed a tuning effect I have not encountered before. It was most noticeable from around clarinet register F up to say, C at the top of that register. When playing these notes it was as if two notes were playing, one at a fractionally different pitch to the other. This was unpleasant! I have, in the past, suffered from a blocked ear tube condition which made that kind of thing happen, and thought it might be that, but noticed that my ears otherwise seemed fine. So I asked my colleagues to listen for it, and then to play on their own in the same register. It turned out that they could hear it as well, and it sounded just as bad on violin. It was much less obvious on the viola or cello. So, in all, three instruments playing in a similar register made this effect. And it wasn't something else in the room ringing (like a piano - there was no piano) because that would have been audible as coming from a different location. This effect had no locational aspects.
The room in question was an average kind of rectangular room. Very few soft furnishings, but not unfurnished. It is prefabricated in structure but otherwise completely conventional.
Anyone got any idea what was going on?
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Author: Lelia Loban ★2017
Date: 2010-08-16 11:27
Maybe the sound waves from notes in that range cause something in that room to resonate. If you want to try to track down the culprit, someone in the quintet could go around the room and put a hand on various hard, loose objects in turn while someone else plays a note that causes the harmonic to resonate. The resonator won't be something like a cushion or a curtain. It'll be something like a small, framed picture hanging loosely on the wall or a small china or metal ornament sitting on a wooden desk. Putting a hand on the object stops it from resonating and making the sound. Once you know what's making the noise, you can decide whether to move it temporarily out of the room or let it "sing along."
You can test how this method of stopping a resonance works by "pinging" a spoon against a lightweight metal bowl. As the bowl makes its ringing sound, put a hand on it. The sound will stop immediately. Similarly, you've probably seen timpani players put a hand on the drum head to cut the sound short. Sound waves can do some interesting things. With my bass saxophone, I can make small objects vibrate until they "walk the plank" off the edge of my console piano.
Lelia
http://www.scoreexchange.com/profiles/Lelia_Loban
To hear the audio, click on the "Scorch Plug-In" box above the score.
Post Edited (2010-08-16 11:29)
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Author: graham
Date: 2010-08-16 13:41
Thanks Lelia
The problem is that the two notes were always very close to each other. So, say I played an F, then I heard one F fractionally sharper than the oher. And if I played G, then I got two Gs but one a little sharper than the other. Both at the same dynamic volume. This would not tie in with something in the room resonating.
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Author: concertmaster3
Date: 2010-08-17 02:54
Was there a fan in the room? Or air vent somewhere close? I just played quintets, quartets, and octets with some friends (on violin and clarinet), and during the octet we had to cut the fan on because of the heat, and the higher we played both times (played 1st and 2nd violin...) we could hear the vibrations hitting the fan. I also notice something like that when I play at home and the A/C is running.
Ron Ford
Woodwind Specialist
Performer/Teacher/Arranger
http://www.RonFordMusic.com
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Author: skygardener
Date: 2010-08-17 04:21
"The room in question was an average kind of rectangular room. Very few soft furnishings, but not unfurnished."
I think it was the room itself. Rooms made for music are always designed will at least one large surface that is asymmetrical. This avoids the problem you have described.
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Author: Lelia Loban ★2017
Date: 2010-08-17 12:08
>>The problem is that the two notes were always very close to each other. So, say I played an F, then I heard one F fractionally sharper than the oher. And if I played G, then I got two Gs but one a little sharper than the other. Both at the same dynamic volume. This would not tie in with something in the room resonating.>>
Tht makes sense, because organ pipe resultants, formed by pairing a pipe with its quint, drop to the bass octave, for instance, but oddly enough, things in a room *can* audibly resonate very close (annoyingly close) to the note being played. Those small objects I mentioned above are metal incense burners. I own about 400 of them. I don't monkey around with the good ones, but with the cheap little modern brass and pot-metal ones I pick up for next to nothing at yard sales, I can amuse myself and Jane Feline by playing bass sax at them to make them "walk" on the piano. =Some of the burners won't make noise or walk at all. Others, though they don't look much different, do make an audible little bumblebee-type noise that gets louder as they rev up to start scuttling (before Jane lashes her tail back and forth a few times, jumps them and swats them sky-Western). I can't tell whether the noise comes from drumming (the burner starting to move and rattling on the resonant wooden piano top) or whether it's a whine coming from the metal itself (as when a singer finds the note that will shatter glass). The loudest part of the bumblebee noise differs from one burner to another. Often it's a high-pitched whine, but equally often it's a note just sharp from what I'm playing.
Lelia
http://www.scoreexchange.com/profiles/Lelia_Loban
To hear the audio, click on the "Scorch Plug-In" box above the score.
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Author: Dick
Date: 2010-08-17 18:37
Fans can do a lot of interesting things to sound. I have experienced a near impossibility to sound a low F on an alto recorder when my fan is blowing air over the instrument. I have also experienced some unique vibrato effects with my clarinet in the presence of fan air.
Dick
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Author: graham
Date: 2010-08-19 07:10
Ah Ha! Brilliant.
The missing piece of information in my commentary was the fan. This was pointing straight at me, and at the first violin (except she was sitting broadside to it). It was pointing at an angle to the cello, and was alongside the second violin and at a considerable angel to the viola. People's reactions suggested that I, the first violin and cellist all heard it more clearly than the other two (who, without being disrespectful, might have adopted an emperor's new clothes approach to the issue).
I wondered if it could be doppler, but could see no moving source. But now, following the above fan comments I have found a site which says that fans do introduce doppler effects. It seems that the reflected sound off the wall behind the fan was shunted back to me at a higher frequency, thus making the note out of tune with itself. Next time the fan has to go somewhere further away and at an angle to all the players.
Link is:
http://www.picotech.com/experiments/doppler_effect/doppler-effect.html
Thanks!
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