 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2010-07-29 01:42
I mean, we all new it was gonna happen. But is it really necessary? I know that no matter WHAT, there will be someone out there that not only thinks they can play something better than you, they for some reason will feel the need to prove it RIGHT THERE, after you play something.
My experience with clarinet is limited. I learned from my group lessons in high school and junior high, and from this board. But it is still a little annoying that while at Clarinetfest, when trying out a mouthpiece, you need to play SOMETHING. For the majority of people, it seemed to be the Mozart Clarinet Concerto. To spare the exhibitors, I checked it with other stuff. I checked staccato with a snippet of something I have to learn anyway for WWQ. I check how easy it is to play ppp with the beginning of Weber Concerto/Concertino and playing an altisimmo F at ppp. I check it's jazzy capability with the beginning of Artie Shaw Concerto attempting to bend and vibrato, and the beginning of Just a Closer Walk With Thee to see if I can make it sound kinda airy and breathy, but loud.
But really? If someone three booths over plays Artie Shaw, do you really all of a sudden need to do the same thing? If I play the intro to Closer Walk, do you need to replay it while adding more improv?
It seems to me that the culprits most responsible for this seem to be those students in the middle, or the big fish high school students in the high school small pond. The people who are anywhere from ending their bachelor's to working on graduate studies. You never hear the pros walking around one-upping. Not cause they can or can't, but because they don't seem to care. It almost seems like there's a lack of confidence and when you hear something you think you can do better, you feel the need to placate yourself by playing it a little faster or making the staccato shorter.
I mean, after the first couple times I can ignore it. And then I started rolling my eyes a bit when I heard someone imitating me (with an exhibitor or two kinda chuckling cause they KNEW what I was thinking!) But man, it got annoying when I was just walking around and listening/watching. And sometimes even SEEING the imitator look around first to see WHO was playing it before turning and playing it themselves.
So if you are reading this, why? I mean, if it's literally because you forgot that Artie Shaw is a good piece to check a mouthpiece's jazzy capabilities and you felt you needed to too, I understand.
And is it just me that it annoyed? Does it bother others or have thick skins been grown and I just gotta work on mine? I've never been to any sort of open audition of any type (I think maybe an area band audition my freshman year, many years ago), but I can't remember this happening. Does it happen there too? Or are there any other thoughts?
Alexi
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Author: GBK
Date: 2010-07-29 01:56
Most every professional clarinetist I've ever met has been approachable, kind, non-condescending and helpful.
The other 99.9% of clarinet players are insecure, neurotic, paranoid, incredibly cheap and always searching for the one magic bullet that will make their playing easier.
...GBK
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2010-07-29 02:03
GBK wrote:
> Most every professional clarinetist I've ever met has been
> approachable, kind, non-condescending and helpful.
>
> ...GBK
That's what I learned over my first clarinetfest. I felt as though the ones who played parrot are the ones who seemed/sounded just bitter cause they aren't making it yet. And those who have made it, or at least are still professional and truly enjoying where they are and where they're headed, are the ones who smiled and just enjoyed the time.
Alexi
US Army Japan Band
Post Edited (2010-07-29 02:38)
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Author: EEBaum
Date: 2010-07-29 02:13
So true, so true.
When the Mozart came on particularly thick, I'd bust out some fringe extended techniques to try to freshen things up. Buzzing into the barrel while growling, stuff like that. A couple people seemed to appreciate it, anyways. Many gave me looks like "goof-off in the corner is making a fool of himself."
I appreciate you putting this into words, Alexi, and pointing out aspects of it I hadn't noticed. I will no doubt have a great deal of fun playing with this factor at next year's fest...
-Alex
www.mostlydifferent.com
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Author: Lelia Loban ★2017
Date: 2010-07-29 12:32
It's not just clarinet players. Last year, my husband's piano quintet gave a recital at a local piano store's showroom and invited the pianist's students. Anyone else who happened to come into the store was free to take a seat as well. During the recital, the door to that room stayed shut and we didn't hear a lot from the other side of the wall, but before and after, I noticed that the teacher's students trying out the store's pianos behaved exactly as you describe.
I'm surprised you could *tell* that anybody was imitating you at ClarinetFest! Must've been a bigger room and less acoustically live than the dealer rooms at the only ClarinetFest I've attended (U. of Maryland). There, I quickly gave up on trying out any equipment, because the noise level approached the pain threshhold. I could've sounded as if I were playing a kazoo for all I could tell. (How did the dealers sit there all day without going bananas?)
Lelia
http://www.scoreexchange.com/profiles/Lelia_Loban
To hear the audio, click on the "Scorch Plug-In" box above the score.
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Author: johng ★2017
Date: 2010-07-29 13:02
Touchy, touchy. Think of it as a Mozart Concerto improvisation session where players take off on other people's ideas while maintaining the general, ta ta, t teeah ta ta ta, ta flub ta flub, fre-on. Anything goes here, even buzzing in the barrel and especially the "thrilling" high C's. Just feel honored that your ideas are worth copying.
John Gibson, Founder of JB Linear Music, www.music4woodwinds.com
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Author: MarlboroughMan
Date: 2010-07-29 14:30
" ta ta, t teeah ta ta ta, ta flub ta flub, fre-on"
LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL.....John you just made my day.....Am seriously laughing.....THANK YOU.
(Can you do this for entire repertoire? Hit me with the Copland Cadenza....)
******************************
The Jazz Clarinet
http://thejazzclarinet.blogspot.com/
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2010-07-29 14:59
Transcribe Frank Zappa's guitar solo from "Peaches in Regalia" and play that, nobody will bother you any more.
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2010-07-29 15:11
With guys, there's almost always some one-upping, at least at an audition or among other players where you want to "mark your territory." When I and two friends were the best high school players in East Tennessee, we once walked up and down the hall at the All East Tennessee Orchestra auditions playing as fast and loud as we could. Some people called it "Shawing off."
At the Clarinet Congress in London, Kjell-Inge Stevensson and Serge Dangain had an imromptu duel in the vendors' area, tossing back and forth impossible passages from the Francaix Concerto.
John Denman, who should have known better, was a dreadful bully with this. When I was sitting with Iggy Genussa at the Columbus convention trying out mouthpieces, John repeated everything I played, really getting in the way.
It's the nature of the beast.
Ken Shaw
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2010-07-29 15:50
That's simply because there are too many jerks in the world and to many of them are students that feel that they have to "show" off because they can this or that well. The problem with so many of them though, and they know it but won't admit it, is that they can't do enough well enough to be as good as they need to.
I have taught for many years in a university, music festival and conservatory settings and I can tell you that there are always some students that are big headed, jerks, pushy and throat cutting. I once took a student off a good orchestra part for cutting another students playing in front of others. I've always made it a point to teach my students never to act that way and if or when I saw or heard that one of them stepped over the line I would come down on them about it, unfortunately I can't say that about every other teacher I heard about. Too often it is tolerated by some teachers, fortunately not all though. Studio teachers need to teach their students more then just how to play a scale or etude, especially at that level. They need to teach them to be respectful and not act like "jerks". I consider it partially a reflection on the teacher when they do if they let them get away with it. ESP http://eddiesclarinet.com
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Author: grifffinity
Date: 2010-07-29 20:55
Ugggg. This also happens in community band and even semi-pro orchestra's. Not just clarinetists, but all instrumentalists. At a recent orch rehearsal, a cellist kept playing the opening of Dvorak Concerto. Needless to say, the concerto was not part of the orchestra rep during this concert cycle. In concert band, I hear a lot of younger clarinetists playing Debussy, Stravinsky or something else they think is quite advanced and "special". However, they always seem to butcher the concert band music during rehearsal.
The only thing I play before rehearsals is the rehearsal music so I am properly warmed up. I also teach my students the same thing, and warn them about crash and burn "Show-offs" during their auditions. Have you ever noticed a majority of the show-offs never quite perform as well in the audition room. In my HS days, I would always wonder where that kid who was playing lightening fast scales in the warm-up room ended up...cause they never seemed to make the Wind Ensemble at Regions or All-state.
Post Edited (2010-07-29 20:57)
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2010-07-30 02:11
I used to play principal at the Eastern Music Festivals pro orchestra, the Eastern Philharmonc, and one year we had a second player that would warm up playing the orchestra solos that I was going to play that evening. I told him that wasn't very professional but it didn't seem to phase him in the least, he didn't stop. He only lasted one summer because I asked that he not be re hired for the next summer. Fortunately, in the 25 years I played there the three other seconds I had the privilege to work with acted much more professional. Some people are just jerks. ESP
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2010-07-30 02:35
Quote:
dents the same thing, and warn them about crash and burn "Show-offs" during their auditions. Have you ever noticed a majority of the show-offs never quite perform as well in the audition room. In my HS days, I would always wonder where that kid who was playing lightening fast scales in the warm-up room ended up...cause they never seemed to make the Wind Ensemble at Regions or All-state. Never thought about that. Interesting to mull over....
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Author: GLHopkins
Date: 2010-07-30 03:10
Ed, your understudy needs to be ready in case you break your trilling finger before the concert.
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Author: Hank Lehrer
Date: 2010-07-30 11:02
Hi,
Pretty funny thread.
OK, I'm a jazzer so when trying a MP or instrument I play a lot of jazz licks or improvise a little bit. I don't even know what I plan to play but I do use a lot of instrument's range. But I am a solid improver so anyone that can one-up me will be a pleasure to listen to.
But seriously, I usually do the On the Trail BC solo on any clarinet, some of the 1st clarinet part for Copland's Outdoor Overture, and maybe the lovely clarinet opening for Butterworth's Banks of Green Willow (in the original key of A on a Bb clarinet). On sax, Sophisticated Lady, a little Ibert, and some of Rose #9 even on sax works well.
Few people know this kind of stuff.
HRL
PS I do sit next to Lisa in one band and her "showstopper" as she calls it is the smoothest chromatic scale I have ever heard anyone play. It knocks me out everytime she does it. LOL.
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Author: Lelia Loban ★2017
Date: 2010-07-30 13:44
Back in high school, the period when everybody found their seats and tuned up before "Battle of the Bands" festivals (which included orchestras) degenerated into one-up-fests unless the MC cracked down and threatened to disqualify anybody who played while another group tuned.
I hated playing in public, and never had the nerve to try to one-up anyone because I was sure I'd let out some Giant Rat of Sumatra squeak that I'd never be able to pretend was altissimo. But I do enjoy listening to people who play brilliantly show off, as long as fifteen of them aren't all doing it at once and making everyone's ears bleed. I've learned a few new tricks by observing people who played better than I did and asking them questions.
Lelia
http://www.scoreexchange.com/profiles/Lelia_Loban
To hear the audio, click on the "Scorch Plug-In" box above the score.
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Author: Chris Hill
Date: 2010-07-30 15:47
We had a sub in my orchestra who insisted on playing my solos along with me as I was warming up on them. We don't have that sub anymore...
Chris
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Author: Gandalfe
Date: 2010-07-30 17:28
Wow, I must live a charmed life as I have not run into this problem. I do know that when I'm practicing something for an upcoming gig at home, afterwards I'll often find my wife whistling the tune as she does dinner or chores. I think it's human nature to appreciate and want to play something that is being played at the time.
I always assume the best of my fellow musicians. I was surprised when we hired a professional sax player, with many CDs to his credit, who would quote part of my last solo in his next one at a gig. I asked my instructors and apparently that is common in the industry. His rendition certainly sounded better than mine. :O)
Jim and Suzy
Pacifica Big Band
Seattle, Washington
Post Edited (2010-07-30 17:28)
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Author: Hank Lehrer
Date: 2010-07-30 23:18
Jim,
I really liked the "I always assume the best..." and your comment about your "wife whistling the tune..." is really great.
Your words and wisdom are very thought provoking.
HRL
BTW I like Vista but have not made friends very easily with Windows 7!
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Author: Brandon
Date: 2010-08-01 00:03
You all didn't know that Szell found Marcellus as he was walking through the vendor room? That is why folks look around first. They were looking around to see if Alan Gilbert or Riccardo Muti were looking for their next principal clarinet in the vendor room.
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Author: CK
Date: 2010-08-02 03:56
I always tell my students to play the best they can. And that there always
will be someone who is better. Once you realize this at a professional level
you can ignore these "Jerks" and remain confident about yourself.
As a music contractor I make it a point to hire the best professionals
who do not have an attitude as discussed.
Prof. of Clarinet at Broward College and Wooding Doubler.
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2010-08-02 18:49
I just remembered a story about what happened at one of my students degree recitals a few years ago at Peabody. She was playing the Debussy Rhapsodie, did a really good job too. The new audition has a different note near the end of the piece and there's a lot of controversy about which is correct, the old way or the new way. I have always believed the old way is correct but allow my students to decide themselves. In any case she choose to play it the old way and one of the students from another studio who "insists" his students play it the new way raises her hands up in the air and yelled, "she played it the wrong way" during the performance loud enough for me, and everyone else I suppose, to hear it sitting 5-6 rows behind her. She was even a friend of the girl performing. With friends like that who needs enemies right? Talk about a student being pig headed, she wouldn't even apologize after I told her that her actions were unacceptable and insulting to her friend and the audience and that different people play that passage different ways. I'll never forget that and I'll never forgive her for doing that to "her friend".
Then there was a guest artist master class that a student "conducted" while another student was performing doing all kinds of emotional motions, very disturbing and insulting to the student that was trying to play. Also from a different studio, I would have thrown that student out if they were mine. ESP
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Author: Bob Phillips
Date: 2010-08-10 04:40
NEVER pick up a clarinet in the ClarinetFest demonstration room if you can't play the exposition and cadenzas from Capriccio Espangol!
Bob Phillips
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Author: grenadilla428
Date: 2010-08-13 14:37
I hadn't encountered this since high school... until I joined a local wind ensemble. At one of my first rehearsals, I had just unpacked and was sitting in my seat playing a couple of quiet and rather slow minor scales. The principal shortly began ripping through all of her minor scales.
I sat and thought, "Really?"
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