 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Raff P
Date: 2010-07-25 08:42
Hello Forum.
This morning I went to my local music store downtown and bought five size 4 Grand Concert Select Reeds (individually). When I got home and tried them out, I examined the vamps of the reeds and noticed that the lady had given me two types of GCS reeds, though I cannot identify them as this is my first time ever purchasing Rico Reeds.
Upon closer inspection I found that Reed 1 had a shorter stock, and that the part of the vamp that is shaved off when they french-file it comes up and makes a much steeper incline (a bit more than a third of the entire vamp) than that of Reed 2. Also, the edges at either end of the tip of the reed were much more rounded. On a side note, it was also easy to see the work of diamond cutters which left a strange sheen on the vamp.
On the other hand, Reed 2 has a longer stock, and the french-filed portion of the vamp only extends about a fourth of a centimeter from the cut. The edges of the tip of the reed are not rounded and are somewhat angular in comparison to Reed 1.
The wealth of knowledge on this forum surely has the answer.
Thanks in advance,
Raff
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Author: Bob Bernardo
Date: 2010-07-25 09:17
They use 2 different machines and 2 tip cutters. The file cut is done by a sanding machime that assorted ladies use. Basically it's a guessing game, nothing with them is perfect. The ladies eye ball it.
The diamond on the cutter was most likely recently resharpened; sheen on the vamp.
The thin blank GC reeds have a straighter edge at the tip. The thick blanks are rounder. It's totally possible they used the wrong clippers. Rico wanted the rounder look to match the look of Vandoren.
I prefer Vandoren V12 reeds.
Rico uses pesticides on there reeds. I want to live a few extra years so I left Rico and sued them. I was the person that designed these reeds; not knowing Rico was using assorted chemicals at the time.
Notice how Rico hasn't sued me for saying this for several years now! I think it's been 14 years and counting. Maybe one day they will clean up their act and stop saying their cane is all natural.
I'm in the process of designing a website about reeds and mouthpieces, included on the site will be a complete long list of chemicals found on the reeds, even after some were boxed over 14 years now. Most of the chemicals don't go away after time, they go into your mouth, then your body and stay there. Also on the site will be the toxins found in my body.
Designer of - Vintage 1940 Cicero Mouthpieces and the La Vecchia mouthpieces
Yamaha Artist 2015
Post Edited (2010-07-25 09:19)
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Author: Bob Bernardo
Date: 2010-07-25 09:24
Oh, if you are tired of buying a box of reeds and only getting one reed to play, send them all back, they will replace them for you at no charge!
Rico International
Quality Control Dept.
8484 San Fernando Rd
Sun Valley, CA 91352
Designer of - Vintage 1940 Cicero Mouthpieces and the La Vecchia mouthpieces
Yamaha Artist 2015
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Author: Raff P
Date: 2010-07-25 09:34
Bob,
Haha I liked the change of tone from your first to your second post -- gave me a good laugh.
But joking aside, thanks for your speedy, insightful reply.
Now I'm beginning to consider whether playing the rest of these reeds is worth cutting a couple months from my life. :P
I very well may switch back to Vandoren with this newfound knowledge -- though I'm waiting for my Forestone reeds to come in!
May justice be served.
-Raff
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Author: clarinetguy ★2017
Date: 2010-07-25 14:06
Bob, thanks for sharing this information with us. I'm curious though--where can one find information indicating that Vandorens are pesticide-free? Perhaps I missed something, but I couldn't find anything on their web stite that discussed this. The only reeds that I could find that claim to be free of pesticides are Zonda and Gonzalez. Reeds Australia are supposedly organically grown.
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Author: Joseph LeBlanc
Date: 2010-07-25 14:51
Bob,
Would you please supply evidence to back up your claim of pesticides and toxins found in cane?
From what I've been told, Arundo Donax is considered a weed, and do not need pesticides to help them flourish. In fact the problem is often the opposite, with populations fighting the infestation of this weed. Additionally, according to wikipedia the stems of arundo donax have naturally occurring chemicals that make them very repellent to any wildlife feeding on them.
Cane companies that use the term "organically grown" are being a bit disingenuous as pesticides are neither used or needed when growing what is considered a pest plant is most locations.
Obviously, I'm no expert in the matter, and I'm happy to change my mind in light of facts and evidence but what you have given is simply too vague.
Specifically I'd like to know:
What pesticides are used on their cane fields?
For what purpose are they used?
What toxins are found in their reeds?
All the best,
Joe
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Author: skygardener
Date: 2010-07-25 15:33
To the OP, the back of all Grand Concert reeds should be labeled appropriately. Any variation beyond that is the normal variation that comes from any mass made product.
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2010-07-25 19:40
All Rico reeds have their name on the back of the reed. It's usually cheaper to buy a whole box too.
It's not that I don't believe Bob, I do, but that's just the environment we live in today with everything that goes into our bodies. I don't think you should go out of your way to use something that's bad for you but I don't believe you have to go to an extreme either to avoid it unless it has a poor effect on you of course.
I've been using several cuts of Rico's reeds since they began manufacturing professional type reeds. I was one of many professionals that they sent reeds to and asked for comments as they were in development for several years and became a Rico performing artist as so many professional players have. I have yet to hear of anyone being effected by the reeds. I use them on clarinet and bass clarinet and have never had a single ill effect from a single one. It would be nice if we could get all our vegetables, meat, fish, chicken, soft drinks, coffee etc. etc. etc. and reeds chemical and insecticide free but that doesn't seem likely for the vast majority of the universe. If you're going to be so worried about the reed you play you should either stop eating or grow your own food, including meat and fish. I'm almost 71 years old, have been using Rico's for many many years and I'm going strong, extremely healthy. If I die at 96 and 5 months old instead of 95 and 9 months old then so be it. I love the Rico reeds and will continue to use them until I stop playing. By the way, I intend to live healthy for at least that long, maybe even a few years more. ESP http://eddiesclarinet.com
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2010-07-25 19:53
Me again. I forgot to mention. I used to get cold sores several times a year and my doctor told me I as probably allergic to the reed cane. After going to several specialists I had a treatment that cut down the number of sores I got from 6-7 a year to maybe 2-3. I used Vandores at the time until I began making my own Bb reeds as well as using a few different brands but always used Vandoren bass clarinet reeds. Since I began using Rico's on both clarinet and bass, and only occasionally making of my own, I've only gotten one or two cold sores in the last 10-12 years all together. Rico's seem to be agreeable to my body. ESP
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Author: andrewsong
Date: 2010-07-25 20:43
I think we can all agree that whether Rico is making a false claim or not, it's not right to make false claims when advertising. That aside, I think the pesticide issue is not significant in a big picture view. Sure, they may contain pesticides, but will they cause harmful effects to your body over the course of time? Most likely not. In today's time, it is hard to determine the validity of the terms "organic", "pesticide-free", or "all-natural". In this case, I think you should play whatever reeds play the best for you. If they are the Rico GS series, go for it. I actually particularly enjoyed the Thick blanks and Traditionals when trying them out.
On a side note, the back of the reeds should say what cut it is, either Traditional, Thick Blank, or Evolution.
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Author: Raff P
Date: 2010-07-25 21:25
In regards to those commenting on the labeling on the back of the reeds:
They all have GC in an oval and the word select beneath it. Also, beneath the word select is the number 4 (the strength obviously).
In regards to the other discussion:
"To each his own."
-Raff
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Author: Bob Bernardo
Date: 2010-07-25 23:21
I haven't tested the Vandoren reeds. Perhaps they use pesticides as well. If you have about $2500 to spare I'll give you the addresses of the places that tested my reeds. They are all still in business.
If you can wait about a month or 2 all of this information will be addressed on the new website.
Joe, I will give you all of the evidence you need on the website. If you don't want to wait a month or 2 email me, I'll give you part of this information. There is a lot of info regarding the pesticide issue, including a report from the CDC. (Center for Disease Control) MSDS reports, and 2 or 3 other sources.
The US requires all agriculture coming in from other countries, cane included needs to be fumigated. In general, this is fine, because proper use of gas based fumigants dissipates in a short time, but in the case of Rico they used the wrong pesticides. such as oil based products that remain on the reeds. When you mix oil based fumigants with gas, the gas can remain on the cane forever.
I will get into the side effects on the future upcoming website. For the record, I won the lawsuit against the pesticide companies. There were 5 companies involved. The actual Rico lawsuit should be ending sometime this year. (I hope)
I'm not sure of the laws with France. I know they import some of the cane, but the cane grown from the VAR area of France may or may not be safe, depending if the pesticide companies knew what they were doing.
Here is a short list of the pesticides used, according to the 5 companies I sued. Benzene, depea gas, methyl bromide, and phostoxin. There are at least another 15 to 25 other chemicals.
Designer of - Vintage 1940 Cicero Mouthpieces and the La Vecchia mouthpieces
Yamaha Artist 2015
Post Edited (2010-07-25 23:33)
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Author: Bob Bernardo
Date: 2010-07-25 23:45
By the way, when using these reeds, the pesticides are stored in your fat cells. Sadly you cannot get rid of these heavy metals and your brain is mostly made of fat tissue.
Ed, You have me curious about your cold sores. Maybe there is a need to have the Vandoren reeds checked out.
Designer of - Vintage 1940 Cicero Mouthpieces and the La Vecchia mouthpieces
Yamaha Artist 2015
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Author: skygardener
Date: 2010-07-26 01:55
Raff,
The "GC" in an oval is the OLD model. That is the design from at least 8 or more years ago.
The reeds have changed a lot since then.
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Author: J. J.
Date: 2010-07-26 04:36
There seem to be a lot of details missing here regarding the supposed pesticides. In order for chemicals to be a threat there need to be certain quantities, not trace amounts. Not testing other reeds draws into question whether or not you can point to "pesticides" and single out Rico. There is also the question of whether or not the cultivating practice is the same today as it used to be. There are a lot of unanswered questions. I certainly hope this website gets up sooner rather than later.
In the meantime, would you care to offer up the case numbers of the cases you won against the pesticide companies?
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Author: JJAlbrecht
Date: 2010-07-26 12:16
>>>>I think we can all agree that whether Rico is making a false claim or not, it's not right to make false claims when advertising.
And what, exactly, are you claiming is "false advertising?" I just checked Rico's website and there is no mention of organically grown, pesticide free or any other such claim. It is one thing for Bob to say that Rico uses pesticides, as Bob did. However, I don't see any indication on their adverttising, that they do not use pesticides. FOr that matter, I am looking at a box of Rico Reserve reeds at myt desk right now. There is no claim whatsoever about how they were grown.
Whether Bob and Rico had an (enforceable) agreement about the nature of the can is one thing. Claiming thewit advertising is deceitful is another. I have bnever seen the agreement between Bob and Rico, so I will not comment on that. But I can see no evidence of "false advertising" as Andrewsong states. One should choose one's werods carefulply, as the actually have meanings.
“Everyone discovers their own way of destroying themselves, and some people choose the clarinet.” Kalman Opperman, 1919-2010
"A drummer is a musician's best friend."
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Author: Joseph LeBlanc
Date: 2010-07-26 14:10
Bob,
Yes thanks, please shoot me an email. Or better yet, just post it here on the bboard.
To be clear, I have no stake in Rico or any of their products.
Best,
Joe
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2010-07-26 15:11
Bob, my cold sore problem was a long long time ago, before the gov't had nearly as many restrictions on the use of chemicals and pesticides as they do today. As I said, I haven't had a problem for some time now and I can't be sure it was actually the reed cane causing the problem. It could have been a type of herpes problem which is common with some peoples lips. My main point was that I've been using Rico reeds ever since they began producing professional quality reeds and I have not had a problem with my lip or my health. Maybe I'm just immune to what ever they use as I am to what ever they use in the food and drink I consume. I guess only time will tell. With all the garbage we put into our bodies today it's difficult to tell when someone gets ill what actually caused it, the food, the air, the water, hereditary or THE REEDS. ESP
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Author: mihalis
Date: 2010-07-27 04:24
Here is Bob.
http://www.whyvandoren.com/web-content/Vandoren%26Enviroment.pdf
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Author: Bob Bernardo
Date: 2010-07-27 04:36
Here is something some of you may be interested in reading. Even Rico denies the use of pesticides.
"Myth 4 - "Our cane is pesticide free": The fact is, all cane is pesticide free. Unlike many commercial crops, the cane industry is comparatively miniscule in comparison to corn, wheat, soy, or even vineyards. Thankfully, there are no known pestillance and cane plants are quite healthy. Therefore, there is no need to use any pesticides on cane."
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Written my Mike Zucek, under the blogs.
Designer of - Vintage 1940 Cicero Mouthpieces and the La Vecchia mouthpieces
Yamaha Artist 2015
Post Edited (2010-07-27 04:53)
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Author: Bob Bernardo
Date: 2010-07-27 04:39
mihalis - Thank you for this info!
Designer of - Vintage 1940 Cicero Mouthpieces and the La Vecchia mouthpieces
Yamaha Artist 2015
Post Edited (2010-07-27 20:21)
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