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 E11 Germany and E11 France
Author: stacyc 
Date:   2010-07-08 02:19

I have always played on Selmer clarinets. Today, however, I purchased an E11. I had always thought that all Buffets were made in France but after I got home I seen that mine is made in Germany. (I probably should have spent more time looking it over than playing it) Is the quality of the E11's made in Germany as good as the E11's made in France? When I look at the E11's on the Buffet site I see nothing about them being made in Germany. I am definetly not in my comfort zone with this clarinet right now as it plays much differently from my Signet Special. I am tempted to make the 2 hour drive back to where I purchased this and trade it for a made in France one (just to make myself feel better). Any information that anybody could give me would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks

Stacy

~~Been playing clarinet 17yrs and counting, now playing with the local community orchestra and now my son has taken on the tradition and I couldn't be more proud!~~

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 Re: E11 Germany and E11 France
Author: JJAlbrecht 
Date:   2010-07-08 02:45

>>> When I look at the E11's on the Buffet site I see nothing about them being made in Germany.
That's because the German ones are no longer being produced. Buffet no longer has the contract out with Schreiber.


If you got a good one, there shouldn't be much of a big deal with keeping the German one. Buffet had been outsourcing the E-series to Schreiber in Germany for any number of years. I think it's been since they changed the series from Evettes to E-(insert number here), but I might be wrong on that.

Having said that, the folks here (and on other sites) who have played the French E-11 models have really liked them, and commented quite favorably on the feel, intonation and workmanship. I know Walter Grabner speaks highly of the E11 France.

Personally, I I wasn't overly impressed with one of the German ones I worked on for a friend last year. She needed some minor adjustments and oiling done on it, and I didn't like it a whole lot. Guess I was spoiled with my old R13, and this horn was just a shadow in comparison.

It's your call as to whether you want to trade it in. If it plays well for you, why not give it another day or two to see? Take it to a lesson and ask your teacher, assuming you are taking lessons.

Jeff

“Everyone discovers their own way of destroying themselves, and some people choose the clarinet.” Kalman Opperman, 1919-2010

"A drummer is a musician's best friend."


Post Edited (2010-07-08 02:53)

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 Re: E11 Germany and E11 France
Author: Barry Vincent 
Date:   2010-07-08 05:14

Is there such a thing as a plastic Buffet E11 , the same as the plastic Schreiber 6010? I just ordered the Schreiber and it should arrive next Monday/Tuesday (Aust time).

Skyfacer

Post Edited (2010-07-08 05:18)

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 Re: E11 Germany and E11 France
Author: Ian White 
Date:   2010-07-08 08:06

The B12 is the plastic equivalent of the E11 & used to be made in Germany but where they are made these days I don't know.

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 Re: E11 Germany and E11 France
Author: Barry Vincent 
Date:   2010-07-08 08:29

Thanks Ian for that. I've heard that the 6010 is the equivalent of the B12 if that's the case except that the 6010 has a wrap-around speaker key. And while we are on the subject of Shreiber, I've been told by OzWinds of Melbourne here in Australia , that they have gone into receivership. Anyone else heard about this ?

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 Re: E11 Germany and E11 France
Author: tictactux 2017
Date:   2010-07-08 08:47

Yes, "Schreiber + Keilwerth" (their official name) are (or were) for sale.

http://www.kesslermusic.com/keilwerth/KeilwerthInsolv.pdf

--
Ben

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 Re: E11 Germany and E11 France
Author: stacyc 
Date:   2010-07-08 17:21

Thank you for your response. I have been playing for quite awhile and am very used to my Selmer Signet's free playing.

The problem I have ran into with the E11 was that while I was playing yesterday and granted it was the first day that I had the clarinet it was flat in all registers. I am using the same mouthpiece and reed that I have used for 7 years (B45 and size 4 Vandoren and size 4.5 Mitchell Lurie). I called the store I bought it from and they told me to give it a week to break it in and bring it in if I am still having intonation problems.

Is intonation an issue commonly ran across with the Buffets?

~~Been playing clarinet 17yrs and counting, now playing with the local community orchestra and now my son has taken on the tradition and I couldn't be more proud!~~

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 Re: E11 Germany and E11 France
Author: GBK 
Date:   2010-07-08 17:54

The E11 comes with a 64.5mm barrel and is designed to play at A=442.

...GBK

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 Re: E11 Germany and E11 France
Author: Chris P 
Date:   2010-07-08 18:02

Playing on a B45 with a Vandoren 4 is most likely the reason you're playing flat.

Chris.

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 Re: E11 Germany and E11 France
Author: stacyc 
Date:   2010-07-08 19:04

Chris P wrote:

> Playing on a B45 with a Vandoren 4 is most likely the reason
> you're playing flat.
>

What do you suggest? I just bought a new Selmer C85 mouthpiece plus I have a 3rd generation HS*. I don't have flat tonation probems with any combination of the three listed above on my Selmer Signet.

~~Been playing clarinet 17yrs and counting, now playing with the local community orchestra and now my son has taken on the tradition and I couldn't be more proud!~~

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 Re: E11 Germany and E11 France
Author: Chris P 
Date:   2010-07-08 19:12

What facing is your C85? And does the C85 and HS* play up to pitch on the E11?

Remember the E11 has a much narrower bore compared to a Signet, so that will take some getting used to.

Chris.

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 Re: E11 Germany and E11 France
Author: JJAlbrecht 
Date:   2010-07-08 19:22

E11 horns are usually pitched a tad higher (442 Hz) with the factory-supplied barrel, so it would most likely be a mismatch with mouthpiece, or just that you aren't used to working with the instrument yet.

If it turns out you don't like the wayy the instrument plays, check out the comparable French model (can't believe I'm recommending ANYTHING from France! :) ). If you still aren't happy, an excellent instrument that costs avbout the same as an E11, maybe even less, is the Ridenour Lyrique. This is made of hard rubber, so you won't have to worry about cracking. The top of the line goes for about a Grand, and it's a nice instrument. I own one and use it regularly in concert performances. Tom Ridenour, the designer, hand-finishes the instruments himself in Texas. Tom used to be hte main clarinet designed for Leblanc, and was the creator of the Opus and Concerto clarinets fr them. They Lyriques have a very even scale, and they come with two barrels, so you can go higher or lower in pitch to work with your current mouthpieces. FOr more info, here is a link: http://www.ridenourclarinetproducts.com/Bbclarpg.html

Jeff

“Everyone discovers their own way of destroying themselves, and some people choose the clarinet.” Kalman Opperman, 1919-2010

"A drummer is a musician's best friend."


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 Re: E11 Germany and E11 France
Author: Franklin Liao 
Date:   2010-07-08 19:33

I am wondering if the recent offerings from Schreiber would still be the same level as the E11s they made for Buffet. I recall that Chris P said something to that effect in 2007.

Speaking of the Lyrique, I never quite understood why Tom doesn't simply ask the Chinese to manufacture the body and make all the keywork in Texas. Given his own caliber, one would be more than happy to pay double the cost of his instruments had he forged the keys on top of doing the voicing in USA.

I do know, thanks to Alastair Hanson, that silver does not mix well with ebonite due to the sulfur contents, but nicely done nickel or gold plated keys do not have such to fear from. In my opinion, this keywork workmanship issue is the Achilles heel for Thomas Ridenouor's Lyrique when presented to various shop repair techs, and should that be rectified, he would have an undisputed ace in ebonite clarinets.



Post Edited (2010-07-08 19:37)

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 Re: E11 Germany and E11 France
Author: DavidBlumberg 
Date:   2010-07-08 20:29

I admire Tom a lot, but do wish they made the Lyrique in Wood, and with better keyword. His design though is quite innovative.

I'd return the German E-11 as it's not a very recent production, as well as the new one is said to have improvements.

http://www.MyTempoMusic.com

http://www.ClarinetLessonOnline.com


Post Edited (2010-07-10 02:55)

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 Re: E11 Germany and E11 France
Author: dibble 
Date:   2010-07-09 00:54

Since my Selmer 10 cracked, I had no choice but to play my lyrique Bb which I bought specifically for outside playing. The sound satisfies some things but always leaves me hungry. Also, the keywork is getting rusty and it is not so old. It plays well in tune and has even resistance.

My personal experience-wood clarinets just sound better. Even the praising review Leslie Craven wrote about the Lyrique said he puts a wooden bell on it to improve the lower register (my lyrique is now being used with my Selmer wooden bell to make the tone more interesting).

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 Re: E11 Germany and E11 France
Author: Franklin Liao 
Date:   2010-07-09 02:08

On my own experimentation with my composite Bliss clarinet, I found getting a wooden bell does add 'something' to that instrument... maybe extra heft? It's hard for me to quantify. If I stick the composite bell onto my CSG, I felt a change in the level of control in the bell notes but at a cost to something... intrinsic to the instrument? I am not sure why I even feel this way and unable to give it better words.

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 Re: E11 Germany and E11 France
Author: DavidBlumberg 
Date:   2010-07-09 05:05

It's the argument that the wood, plastic, hard rubber, crystal, paper mache, etc VIBRATES or not........ and affects the tone and response of it.

Maybe one day I'll get old enough not to either know nor care.....

http://www.MyTempoMusic.com

http://www.ClarinetLessonOnline.com


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 Re: E11 Germany and E11 France
Author: dibble 
Date:   2010-07-09 07:03

If I had the the dough for an E11 France, I would get a refund on the E11 Germany and instead buy a Yamaha 650. You can try 3 at a time from WWBW.

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 Re: E11 Germany and E11 France
Author: clarnibass 
Date:   2010-07-09 09:56

>> I am wondering if the recent offerings from Schreiber would still be the same level as the E11s they made for Buffet. <<

After seeing several relatively new German E11s...I definitely hope not!  :)

>> Speaking of the Lyrique, I never quite understood why Tom doesn't simply ask the Chinese to manufacture the body and make all the keywork in Texas. <<

Making all the keys in a one person shop in USA would probably cost a fortune, if it's even possible for him to do this. It is probably far better for someone to just specify more details of how they want a factory to make the keys e.g. specific design, metal, etc. I don't know if they can do all of it though.

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 Re: E11 Germany and E11 France
Author: JJAlbrecht 
Date:   2010-07-09 15:25

Additionally, it is not practical to attempt nickel plating in the US, due to the toxicity of the process and envtionmental regulations. I believe this is why Buffet's nickel finish has also gone downhill. Sourcingthe keywork to China skips that issue, as they really aren't concerned with the effects of the process over there. Labor is cheap and plentiful, and like most earlier socialist countries in the former Soviet Bloc, environmental concerns rarely enter the equation.

Silver plating would be an alternative, but is not practical when making instruments from ebonite/hard rubber, as the outgassing of sulphur ccompounds leads to rapid tarnishing of the silver finishes.

Jeff

“Everyone discovers their own way of destroying themselves, and some people choose the clarinet.” Kalman Opperman, 1919-2010

"A drummer is a musician's best friend."


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 Re: E11 Germany and E11 France
Author: DavidBlumberg 
Date:   2010-07-09 15:58

Yup, so make it out of wood........

http://www.MyTempoMusic.com

http://www.ClarinetLessonOnline.com


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 Re: E11 Germany and E11 France
Author: stacyc 
Date:   2010-07-09 23:55

I solved my tonation problem today. It was obviously a mismatch with mouthpiece, reed and clarinet. I went back to my old but very trusty HS* with a Mitchell Lurie 3.5 and was in tune in all registers. It is still going to take some time to "warm" up to this clarinet because I have came to realize that "Once a Selmer girl, ALWAYS a Selmer girl."  :) Thanks for the comments/tips that were given about my problem!

One day when I am not having to keep up my young son and myself in clarinets I will get a Selmer Paris Odysee or Recital. For the time I will make-do!

~~Been playing clarinet 17yrs and counting, now playing with the local community orchestra and now my son has taken on the tradition and I couldn't be more proud!~~

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 Re: E11 Germany and E11 France
Author: DavidBlumberg 
Date:   2010-07-10 00:01

The Recital's are like a heavy rock in my hands. Significantly heavier than any other Soprano Clarinet that I've played.

Get a strap if you dare play that thing.

http://www.MyTempoMusic.com

http://www.ClarinetLessonOnline.com


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 Re: E11 Germany and E11 France
Author: GLHopkins 
Date:   2010-07-10 02:39

David, a big ole boy like you whining about a little ole clarinet being too heavy? I declare....:) .....they are heavy.



Post Edited (2010-07-10 02:43)

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 Re: E11 Germany and E11 France
Author: Barry Vincent 
Date:   2010-07-10 17:40

Want to try my full Boehm A :)

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 Re: E11 Germany and E11 France
Author: Old Geezer 
Date:   2010-07-12 21:50

I'm a very old guy and hadn't played or thought much about the clarinet for more than
fifty years when I decided to take it up again. I started with an 80 dollar wonder from Clarinuts and after a few weeks thought I'd have to buy up.

So I bought an E11 (made in Germany) and was satisfied for a few months and then bought up again. I paid $770 for the E11 and very shortly after that Buffet forced that price up to $1100 so I guess I got an unintended bargain. The E11 isn't bad and I take it out once in a while to see if there's really that much difference between it and the ones I play now...there really is in every way. But if I couldn't a afford anything else I could live with an E11.

These days I alternate with a Buffet Bb Vintage and a Yamaha CSG.
To my antique ears the CSG is really easy to play in tune over the whole range...the Vintage has, for me, that wonderful characteristic clarinet tone that makes practice worthwhile.

Clarinet Redux

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