 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: jnswickard
Date: 2010-07-04 21:07
Any suggestions as to best mouthpiece for B&H 1010 Symphony (mid 50's)?
Thanks,
Jack
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Author: jnswickard
Date: 2010-07-04 23:03
Is it important to use a mouthpiece specifically designed for the 1010?
Jack
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Author: cigleris
Date: 2010-07-05 00:03
Jack,
You have to use a mouthpiece with a 1010 bore. You can either get something from Ed (his mouthpieces are great) or try Mike Lomax in the US I have tried some of his 1010 mouthpieces.
Failing that you could just get a mouthpiece maker to bore out your chosen mouthpiece to the 1010 size though I'm not sure how prevalent the reamers are in the States.
I play Eaton Elites (previously Boosey 1010) and my Hite was bored out and has been no trouble at all. I will say that different mouthpieces will react in different ways after being bored out and won't necessarily play like they did before they were bored out.
All the best with it.
Peter Cigleris
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Author: ito
Date: 2010-07-05 01:58
Hi,
Contact Mr. Ed Pillinger,i am not playing on the 1010 but on B&H 926,using his P45A 926 mouthpiece.
Nice guy to ask informations also even without purchasing,he is very knowledgable
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2010-07-05 13:17
Jack, if you fail to use a designated "large bore" mouthpiece with your 1010, the backpressure will create a giant embolism in your body and you will have no choice but to initiate a class-action lawsuit against the successors (whoever they are) of the manufacturers of your 'defective' 1010 (which must be defective, by definition, since everyone who is anyone has switched to Buffet clarinets).
Rather than take this risk, please send me your 1010 and I will dispose of it safely.
In lieu of that approach, you could try just about any decent mouthpiece and you might find one that works just fine, bore dimension notwithstanding.
Caveat: I know nothing (with apologies to the late, great Sgt. Schulz).
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2010-07-05 14:01
In addition to what's mentioned above:
Peter Eaton http://www.eatonclarinets.co.uk/ makes 1010-bore clarinets and mouthpieces. I have a French-bore Eaton mouthpiece I got from him many years ago, which my wife loves. She says it has a "very clarinetty" sound. I agree, but found the tone too inflexible. Be warned, though, that his mouthpiece prices are startlingly high.
Luis Rossi makes a 1010-bore clarinet (look under "Larger Bore") and a mouthpiece for it. http://www.rossiclarinet.com/
Ken Shaw
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Author: jnswickard
Date: 2010-07-05 14:43
Dave,
You had your chance to dispose of the 1010 when you overhauled it. You even threatened to feed it to your dogs. Perhaps it was negligent of you to overhaul it in the first place. I will have to check in the law library.
Seriously Dave--good to hear from you again.
Jack
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Author: jnswickard
Date: 2010-07-05 15:05
I do not wish anyone to be mistaken by my teasing comments--Dave Spiegelthal did an outstanding job overhauling my 1010!!
Jack
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2010-07-05 15:42
Good to hear from you as well, Jack! Glad you're not spending all your time pursuing justice -- gotta save some of that precious time for your clarinet.
All seriousness aside, although it's certainly a controversial subject, the jury is still out (tired cliche intended) on whether the bore of a mouthpiece necessarily has to be matched to the bore of the instrument. My opinion is that bore-matching is unnecessary, but there are other, far more proficient clarinetists than I who opine differently.
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Author: Caroline Smale
Date: 2010-07-05 16:55
It's not just the bore size that matters but also the shape.
The 1010 was designed to play optimally with a mouthpiece having an absolutely parallel bore (not tapered as for French instruments).
Interestingly the entrance diameter of the 1010 mouthpiece is marginally smaller than the 926 mouthpiece even though the 926 bore is smaller (15.05 mm) compared the the 1010 (15.2 mm) but the 1010 m/p overall volume is greater and the shape must have quite an effect on the tuning of the higher harmonics.
The 926 m/p does have a taper but much less than for a typical French instrument.
I think we must accept that the designers of these instruments were very aware of their mouthpiece requirements and B&H were always emphatic on the 1010 parallel m/p.
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2010-07-05 17:28
I agree holeheatedly with Mr. Norman Smale. The VOLUME of air present in the area (heretofore known as, the mouthpiece) has a significant effect on the tuning of the entire horn. To illustrate this difference I encourage any non-believer to play a Boosey 1010 mouthpiece on any other French style horn.....even a 926!!!!
You can get a sense of this tuning difference when comparing a Buffet stock mouthpiece with any Vandoren 13 series (albiet not as dramatic, but it makes the point).
In fact, start off by crowing on JUST the mouthpieces into a tuner and amaze yourself by the difference in the generated pitches. How can this nascent tuning NOT effect the rest of the horn once placed upon your weapon of choice?
This is INDEED my pet peeve.
......................Paul Aviles
Post Edited (2010-07-05 17:35)
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2010-07-05 23:48
I must differ from Mssrs. Smale and Aviles. Instead of being overly concerned with the internal volume of the mouthpiece, I'd suggest finding a mouthpiece which first and foremost has the desired response, resistance, sound and 'reed-friendliness', then making whatever tuning adjustments are needed by pulling in/out the BARREL, or using a longer or shorter barrel, maybe with 'tuning rings' inserted in whatever gap there may be, or getting a custom barrel. There are too many critical facing, baffle and window dimensions on the mouthpiece already, to force an additional constraint on it (that of internal volume); when that constraint is easily adjusted by messing with the barrel.
Believe me, I've probably tried more combinations of mouthpieces and instruments and barrels/necks (on various sizes of clarinet too, not just Bb) than the two of you put together, so I have some feel for what has an effect and what doesn't. My pet peeve, Paul!
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Author: donald
Date: 2010-07-06 04:54
Well i don't often feel inclined to disagree with David Spiegelthal, but my personal experiences with 1010 Clarinets is as follows....
-1987, fellow student with 1010 clarinet. Instrument plays out of tune with Vandoren mouthpiece- "middle" of the clarinet more or less ok but either end unmanageable. With 1010 mouthpiece, plays like a different instrument- and miraculously in tune (as far as i could tell in my student days).
-1992/3/4 colleague in APO plays a pair of 1010s, impossible to play in tune with "standard mouthpieces". Has Selmer mouthpiece re-bored to match her 1010 clarinets, intonation problems solved (and this woman, now a Dr in Australia, had GREAT intonation).
-2010, a colleague and i play testing a 1010 that came from the estate of the former NZSO Principal clarinet. Intonation with standard mouthpieces impossible- it almost sounds like we've put the top of a B flat clarinet on the bottom of an A clarinet. We both try out the 1010 mouthpiece. We can play in tune.
I'm just saying...
dn
edit- in each of these cases, by "out of tune" i really mean that some notes, or regions of the instrument, were in tune and other out of tune by a huge margin. This kind of situation can not be easily rectified by a different length barrel. In case you didn't work it out, my point is that you must have a mouthpiece designed or customised to work with a wide bore clarinet, in order to play well in tune on a 1010.
Post Edited (2010-07-06 08:46)
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Author: clancy
Date: 2010-07-06 08:34
I had no intention of replying to this thread but am doing so as it is teetering on the edge of the ludicrous.
I completely disagree with Mr Spiegelthal - you CANNOT play a 1010 clarinet in tune with a French, German, or any other type of bore mouthpiece - it must be a 1010 size bore.
The 1010 clarinets (Eaton and Rossi included) were designed to be played with a specific bore configuration - to advise others to play French, etc mouthpieces on a 1010 is misinformed and irresponsible in my opinion.
I suggest having your favourite mouthpiece bored out to 1010 specs, that works for me and most all of my clients and colleagues. It really isn't worth trying to find an old B & H 1010 mouthpiece - 9.5 times out of 10 the facing won't work so it will have to be refaced.....best to use something familiar.
Be careful who does the bore work as many many people do it incorrectly - I only trust Jon Steward at Howarth or Peter Eaton for that operation.
R Wodkowski
www.ramonwodkowski.com
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Author: jnswickard
Date: 2010-07-07 14:03
Hmmmmm--with all the smoke still lingering I am beginning to wonder where I must have been when the fan went on???
Thanks all,
Jack
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2010-07-07 14:20
Should I throw an aerosol can of butane on the flames and then run to a safe distance by saying I used to play my 1010 with a Vandoren A1 crystal and never encountered any tuning problems?
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2010-07-07 15:31
Chris P,
If you're saying that you played this combo OVER TIME, in an ensemble AND NEVER encountered tuning problems (ie nasty looks from your section leader) then you are indeed touched by the hand of the acoustics God.
In the three years of playing 1010s in the States, just getting passed their higher tuning issues WITH the appropriate mouthpieces was a gauntlet. On a jury, Larry Combs said something to the effect that I performed quite well despitet the Booseys.............. no one in the States besides DePeyer was ever a big fan.
Oh, and as a note to underline the vast difference in the 1010 mouthpiece, master craftsman Frank Wells once used a standard measuring device he used successfully on all (other mouthpieces) shaped somewhat like a metal traffic cone and applied it to my 1010 #2 mouthpiece. The idea is that upon insertion into the bore, the point where it stops indicates the bore diameter. His bore measuring device just fell into the the mouthpiece and rattled around in it. Frank just laughed like hell.
..................Paul Aviles
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Author: Caroline Smale
Date: 2010-07-07 18:15
Hmmmm. 1010 with Vandoren A1...
Chris doesn't mention if any of his colleagues experienced any tuning problems.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2010-07-07 18:36
As long as two clarinets can play in tune with each other (and with oboes, bassoons and horns), that's all that matters. Add flutes to the equation and that's where it all goes wrong.
The A1 crystal I've got has a very large bore, so to me it seems to work well with large bore instruments - I've never had trouble playing in tune along with anyone with this and the 1010 when I still had it. I'm still playing on the A1 with my Selmers, but the 1010 got bought off me back in 2006.
I think we all know some people who can't play Yamaha or Buffet clarinets in tune.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: JJAlbrecht
Date: 2010-07-07 19:51
Paul, I think Chris was alluding to the players, and NOT the instruments! 
Jeff
“Everyone discovers their own way of destroying themselves, and some people choose the clarinet.” Kalman Opperman, 1919-2010
"A drummer is a musician's best friend."
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2010-07-07 22:30
Next time a 1010 comes my way I'll note down my findings with my A1 and Korg tuner (and other clarinets to compare things with).
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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