 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Tobin
Date: 2010-07-01 17:24
This op/ed article is ridiculous, but it is fun to read everyone lambasting the author in the comments below!
James
Gnothi Seauton
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Author: crnichols
Date: 2010-07-01 19:28
It would take too long to poke holes into this person's argument. I'm going to simply write them off as ignorant.
Christopher Nichols, D.M.A.
Assistant Professor of Clarinet
University of Delaware
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2010-07-01 19:55
Can I say he's an ass, if I can't I'll just say he's a donkey, or is that a mule? I guess he'll never call me for clarinet lessons if he's kids want clarinet lessons, I charge $100 a lesson. Oh yea, I don't take beginners anyway. How many of you know a piano teacher that teaches 8 hours a day for 5 or 6 days a week at $60 an hour. Besides the fact that a person would probably need a therapist by the end of each day, not many teachers can take on that many students. What a dumb article.
ESP http://eddiesclarinet.com
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Author: JEG ★2017
Date: 2010-07-02 01:16
That article reminds me of the only parent I ever lost it on when I was teaching clarinet and saxophone. This woman lived in one of the upper middle class Boston suburbs. I taught her daughter for two years, I think, then after a few years was asked to start her son on clarinet. I taught him for a school year, and then the following September she called back asking me to teach him again, but at a reduced rate because he was "only a beginner" and should merit a lower rate. At that time, about 30 years ago, my rate was low enough. Needless to say, she was the recipient of a not-sympathetic response and the relationship ended there. Incidentally, she was a Juliard graduate and an active piano teacher, and at the time my students included children and grandchildren of Boston Symphony members. So, you see, people can be ignorant even when they're in the business.
I don't know anything about the publication this woman wrote the article for; it may have its own agenda, even though I think I'd have to agree with Ed Palanker. I had over 40 students at various times, but when you factor in absences, holidays and summer vacations you quickly come to realize that for most musicians teaching is not lucrative. I wasn't living in a big house and had trouble making ends meet, as was true with many of my colleagues, in spite of the supposedly high rates we charged.
Now that I'm in IT I don't make near the hourly wage as teaching but the income (for now, anyway) is steady and much better. And there are a lot of former professional musicians who are doing what I do. And I don't have the stress of dealing with various parents and students.
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Author: clarinetguy ★2017
Date: 2010-07-02 01:48
In a way I can understand where the parent is coming from. Raising kids isn't cheap (believe me, I know, but it's worth it!). I think the parent is frustrated by the high cost of everything, and is taking it out on the piano teacher.
I charge less than this piano teacher, but the cost of living differs from place to place. If the parent considers the cost of this kind of personal attention and compares it to the cost of other personal services--haircut, dental cleaning, doctor's visit, consultation with a lawyer--the price is reasonable. I wonder if the public realizes just how much training and work is involved in earning music degrees. These sure aren't easy degrees to earn!
There's another factor that many parents don't consider. If the teacher is honest--and I am--private lesson income is supposed to be reported as taxable income on Schedule C. There is also my "favorite" tax (for those who are self-employed)--self-employment tax on Schedule SE. This tax sure takes quite a bite out of ones income!
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Author: Tobin
Date: 2010-07-02 02:22
"You heard me, $60 an hour....First question: Why do the out-of-work musicians (i.e., piano teachers) make more than the in-work (i.e., performing) ones? Just something to think about."
"Any sidewalk musician could probably teach [my kid] to identify her notes and bang a few chords"
You are cutting this "journalist" too much credit, Clarinetguy. This is crap journalism op/ed un-educated un-researched crap.
This same woman's op/ed before being shell-shocked by private instruction rates was a simple, quick, no substance pro-music education nonsense piece.
http://parentingsquad.com/best-of-parenting-round-up-kids-and-music-edition
James
Gnothi Seauton
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Author: LesterV
Date: 2010-07-02 14:43
Some people simply can't understand why there's big difference between the salary of an employee versus the labor rates the public is charged for their services. I would like to see her reaction if she ever notices what she is charged for labor when when she gets her car fixed or needs a plumber!!!
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Author: Gandalfe
Date: 2010-07-04 22:25
I live in the same town as this person. They haven't even done their research as teachers are available for a lesser rate. It this person spent half the time researching what's available that they probably spent on this article, they'd know that. But complaining is so much more fun, right?
Jim and Suzy
Pacifica Big Band
Seattle, Washington
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Author: salzo
Date: 2010-07-05 02:12
I gotta eat too- that is what a mechanic said to me when I said repairs to my car were expensive.
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Author: blazian
Date: 2010-07-05 04:55
I charge so little for my piano lessons that it couldn't possibly count as a job. It's $30 a month for four or even five lessons. That's only $0.25 (and sometimes $0.20) a minute. But what am I? I have no degree and only just graduated from high school. Oh wait, I've been playing for 12 years now. I should be sufficient. But the author would probably still complain about my pricing.
And dealing with kids is sometimes aggravating. It's like babysitting where the parents expect the child to be a Van Cliburn when they leave. Who wants to teach someone who really doesn't care enough to practice or can't sit still for a second or smells funny (I've had two sweaty kids in a row)? I sure don't. But who do I teach? Children.
Anyway, she's just uninformed. Like many people, she doesn't do proper research.
T.I. has a pretty good quote for this. "Better get on yo job, tell'em, haters get on yo job"
- Martin
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Author: geminioboe
Date: 2010-07-05 08:19
I think this woman should save her $60.00 an hour for a good shrink. That kid is going to need it. Mom is a real DOOZEY!!!
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Author: William
Date: 2010-07-05 16:33
ED P--$100 per hour??? LOL--That's cheap. My rate is $300 per half hour.....and here my "small town" market, so far, I do not have any students. HOWEVER, that's the way I want it. I have a very nice pension, am relatively debt-free and live comfortably in a nice neighborhood just outside our capitol city of Madison. I do not need the money and thats good, because I HATE TEACHING PRIVATE LESSONS. Too much, "let's try that one again", or "I didn't practice [again, usually]" or "I forgot what you told me" or "____ _____ " you fill in the blanks. Put me in front of a large public school ensemble and I love it--but in a private, one-on-one lesson, for some reason, I just have no patience for incompetence, noncommittment to excellance (that I hold for my own performances) & just plain laziness. I would much rather be practicing my own stuff, writting highly informative postings for this BB or taking out the garbage. But, as the saying goes, I'm not cheap but I do have my price......$300 per half hour. But wait, maybe I should raise my rates just in case I actually attract a student.
Bottom line: mostly stress-free and happy to be retired from public school teaching, but still an active performing musician--clarinets, saxes and flute. As for teaching, I'll work with your band or orchestra (even volunteer help with my old middle school band program), but not private lessons for your child. (my rate just went up again :>)
FWIW, I also think the newspaper article is ridiculous. Teaching private lessons is not a cozy situation, but rather quite stressful for the teacher--that is, if they do their job correctly. Keeping individual lesson plans, providing annual progress reports to parents, keeping up with new teaching material & musical annalysis, upkeep of the studio and being available for work when the student is--like after school, evenings and summer vacation--to name just a few reasons. Not to mention "forgotten" lessons and no-shows while you sit there and wait..... Private teachers are worth the money they make, even when the student fails to stand and deliver. Here in Madison, many private teachers have monthly rates--paid in advance--with no refund or make-up for missed lessons without advance notice. And I say, Good For Them. Most of them are good and they deserve their pay.
[sorry for the rant, EP, just trying a bit of my off-beat (arythmic) humor this a.m.]
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Author: HBO
Date: 2010-07-05 17:24
Whenever I come across writings like this, I become more confident in my belief that:
1) Some people have too much times on their hands
2) Some people really don't deserve what they have (i.e. job as a writer... I don't know if she gets paid for writing on this website or not, but if she does...)
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Author: Katrina
Date: 2010-07-05 18:00
William said:
I HATE TEACHING PRIVATE LESSONS. Too much, "let's try that one again", or "I didn't practice [again, usually]" or "I forgot what you told me" or "____ _____ " you fill in the blanks. Put me in front of a large public school ensemble and I love it--but in a private, one-on-one lesson, for some reason, I just have no patience for incompetence, noncommittment to excellance (that I hold for my own performances) & just plain laziness.
(end quote)
I say: Yay! I am precisely the opposite! I LOVE teaching private lessons and would never be caught in front of a school ensemble!
I get too hung up on details to be in front of 50+ kids...I'd lose sight of the goal of the ensemble and want each kid to play as well as he could!
It really does take all kinds!
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Author: plclemo
Date: 2010-07-06 13:29
PIANO: I pay $20.00 per half hour for MY lessons and $25 for 45 minutes for my daughter's lessons.
OBOE: I pay $20.00 per half hour for me.
To ME, this cost is money well spent! It is better than spending $100 an hour for psychological counseling as music helps me to relax. Sure, it may stress me out at times, but those are really rare times. Like when I've been so busy as a wife and mother that I have not had time to practice and I feel bad for wasting the instructor's time when I haven't done my part. Our daughter is learning a lifelong skill. It is good for her academics also. She will be entering 8th grade in the fall and music lessons have helped her use her time wisely.
You're right: BAD article! The author needs to get priorities straight!
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Author: William
Date: 2010-07-06 14:55
DB "Where I live only hacks or kids charge that little."
LOL, I just raised my rates again ($$$)
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Author: plclemo
Date: 2010-07-06 15:52
David, WHAT survey? I didn't see one. Maybe I just missed it. Mom used to say to me when I was looking for something and couldn't find it "If it were a snake, it would've bit you!" When she'd just reach right over and hand "it" to me. I'm a degreed engineer turned science teacher too and OBSERVATION is supposed to be one of the 3 requirements for something to be scientific. The other two are able to be repeated and measured. Guess I was sleeping when God was handing out talents!
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Author: FrankM
Date: 2010-07-06 16:00
I am a high school science teacher...mostly physics and chemistry. I am often asked to tutor local nursing students who need chemistry for their degrees. I would think tutoring in a subject you need to carry on your chosen career would be worth some $$$. Evidently not. My fee is whatever the hourly rate at the local garage is....usually about $50/hr. I have found that amount is acceptable for a mechanic, but not a teacher. Oh well, I could get greedy and charge $90/hr as a local plumber just charged me for a "house call".
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Author: Katrina
Date: 2010-07-06 18:00
Frank,
You're now getting into an area of American culture about which I've long had a theory!
IMO, in America, most people are willing to pay more for physical services (repairs, haircuts, restaurant serving, sports-as-entertainment, medicine/medical advice) than they are for intangible services (education, information). I suspect this is why pro athletes make an exorbitant amount of money and teachers end up living hand-to-mouth.
I've long wondered why this is the case.
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2010-07-06 18:25
> IMO, in America, most people are willing to pay more for physical
> services (...) than they are for intangible services (...).
> I've long wondered why this is the case.
The benefit of an investition is not as obvious (and certain) as it is with tangible goods.
Look at politicians - they'd rather sell something that helps them secure their next election instead of spending money on something only their successor will be able to benefit from.
But that's not just an American thing. It's a generic problem these days where quarterly results are more important than long-term stability.
--
Ben
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2010-07-06 18:59
Even with physical services, sometimes the logic seems twisted. As an example, years ago when I owned a light airplane (prior to marriage and kids!), my aircraft mechanic's labor rate was about 3/4 that of the typical automobile mechanic's rate in my area.
This made no sense to me. My life depended on the work of my aircraft mechanic, but if the auto mechanic screwed up, the worst that would happen would be some inconvenience. The aircraft mechanic's skill level and rigor of training are at least as higher as, if not higher than, those of the grease monkey at the local garage. Yet his pay and job security were far inferior.
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Author: Lelia Loban ★2017
Date: 2010-07-07 18:47
>>I taught him for a school year, and then the following September she called back asking me to teach him again, but at a reduced rate because he was "only a beginner" and should merit a lower rate.>>
Nah, teachers should charge double to teach beginners, especially if they're Mommy's Little Darlings and Mommy's eager to give the teacher lots and lots and lots of helpful advice. (Half-joking, but only half....)
Lelia
http://www.scoreexchange.com/profiles/Lelia_Loban
To hear the audio, click on the "Scorch Plug-In" box above the score.
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