 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: salzo
Date: 2010-06-26 00:01
About ten years ago I was visiting with an in law, whose daughter just started taking clarinet lessons. Wouldnt it be great if Uncle Salzo gave her a lesson. So she starts playing, squawking away, and I take a look at her instrument to see if the sounds she is producing are the result of something screwed up on her horn. She has a chedeville sitting on top of her clarinet. So I tell her dad that in the right hands this could be a great mouthpiece, that a lot of clarinetist would love to have this, and blah blah blah. I told him to put it away and get another mouthpiece for his daughter to use. He told me how it was his horn when he was a kid, and his dad went to the store and bought the chedeville because he broke the one that was there originally. I was kind of hoping he would say "do you want it", but it never came.
I see him once or twice a year, I ask him how is the chedeville doing, he laughs, says that he put it away. The girl quit the clarinet about a month after she started.
I am seeing him on the 4th. I WANT THIS MOUTHPIECE!! How do I convince him that sentimentality is absurd, and the mouthpiece should be played, PLAYED!
I am prepared to offer him $100 and a mouthpiece to replace it-but he doesnt need the money, and I dont know if money is the best tact to go with an in law.
So how would you handle this?
An in law that you see once or twice a year, MAYBE you converse with him for five minutes, who has a mouthpiece sitting in a drawer somewhere, who is reluctant to let it go because his father bought it for him when he was a kid.
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Author: J. J.
Date: 2010-06-26 00:05
I really hope you can get the mouthpiece. In the end, though, be prepared that it still has just as good a chance of being poor as it does being good. That's just the way it is with those things. Have fun!
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Author: salzo
Date: 2010-06-26 00:15
I did play it, and was not all that impressed with it. If I do get it, I would have it refaced. I realize it STILL might not be stellar, but I have to try.
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2010-06-26 00:23
Chedevilles have been bringing at least $600 on the auction sites, and pristine ones have gone for up to $1,000.
I think you have an ethical obligation to tell a relative what he has, ask to play it and, if it's what you simply must have, made an offer based on something close to the actual value. You can point out to him that this is something special that deserves to be used by a professional player (assuming you are one).
Put yourself in his position. If he found that you had something valuable, and that you didn't know the value, would you feel he was unethical if he concealed his knowledge and got it from you at a price a lot lower than the real value?
Ken Shaw
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Author: GLHopkins
Date: 2010-06-26 00:38
Coveting thy in-law's Chedeville is a sin. :-)
Post Edited (2010-06-26 00:39)
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Author: salzo
Date: 2010-06-26 00:59
Ken-
This is not one of the really old ones. I check Ebay regularly to see how much they go for, and the vintage he has seems to go in the $150-200 range.
And I have held nothing back from him when talking about the mouthpiece. I have even told him to go to Ebay and do a search on "chedeville". He knows how much Chedevilles go for, I have told him.
I was thinking of asking him how much he would want to part with it. But I dont think the money is the issue-it is the fact that his father gave it to him that I think is probably the issue. I am not looking to screw him, he has gotten a realistic idea of the value of this, from me.
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Author: Joseph Brenner, Jr.
Date: 2010-06-26 01:09
If you are compelled to proceed on this, follow Ken Shaw's advice. Recognize that proceeding on this carries the potential to damage your relationship with the family. You say that you played it but were not that all impressed, and if you were to acquire it you would have it refaced. Are you chasing a brand, as opposed to a sound? With the universe of mouthpieces and mouthpiece makers available, why risk a family relationship to chase after something that you hope you might be able to refurbish? best wishes,
jbjr
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2010-06-26 01:38
I just don't get it. To me, a mouthpiece that doesn't play very well is worth about $15, regardless of brand and model. A mouthpiece that plays great is worth many hundreds, again regardless of brand and model.
Maybe that's why I'm not rich. But hey, I have lots of good mouthpieces for every one of my many woodwind instruments, so who needs money?
There's already a death warrant out for me by the Buffet Mafia; might as well add the Chedeville and Kaspar Mafias to the list.
I think y'all are way too obsessed with some of these supposedly 'legendary' pieces of equipment. We've been through this flame war before, so I will say no more.
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Author: salzo
Date: 2010-06-26 03:15
Quote Joseph Brenner:
"If you are compelled to proceed on this, follow Ken Shaw's advice. Recognize that proceeding on this carries the potential to damage your relationship with the family. You say that you played it but were not that all impressed, and if you were to acquire it you would have it refaced. Are you chasing a brand, as opposed to a sound? With the universe of mouthpieces and mouthpiece makers available, why risk a family relationship to chase after something that you hope you might be able to refurbish? best wishes,"
Of course I do not want to damage a family relationship. Worst thing that can happen is I ask, and he says No. I would be OK with that, I am sure he would be also.
As far as why chase something when there are other things out there- I have tried A LOT of the other things out there. I played on the same two mouthpieces for twenty years. I liked them both, but started looking for two reasons. The first, was the one mouthpiece that I like, is no longer made. The second mouthpiece is still made, but it is not the same as the older ones. I really like insurance, and the thought that I might break my primary haunted me. I cant replace it, they are no longer made.
So I decided to try mouthpieces that are being produced today, planned on buying a half dozen or so, so that I would not have to worry about breaking something and not having a back up. I didnt try every mouthpiece out there, but I tried a lot-mass produced, custom, etc sent some in to try having refaced-could not find anything that I really liked.
In the past I have not had good luck with having mouth pieces refaced. My only option from the beginning of my search was to find some mouthpiece that is on the market. I did not want to have to deal with finding mouthpieces, and then sending them to someone to "fix"-Ive been dissapointed too many times going that route.
But the problem with mouthpieces on the market, is I just did not like anything that I tried.
I had a couple of old vintage selmers that I sent to have refaced. I did not like these two pieces when I sent them in, so I figured I had nothing to lose, except some money. Going in to this, I figured the chances were better than not that I would be disappointed yet again-sure wouldnt be the first time, so I figured what the heck lets give it a try.
Got the two mouthpieces back, and that is what i am playing now. They are beautiful, it is exactly what I was looking for, so I am absolutely sold on the idea of sending old stuff in to a refacer whose work I really like.
Am I chasing a brand? I guess so. The person who did the refacing on my two selmers said the Chedevilles COULD be good, and are good to work with. Could it be a dud? Well yeah I guess it could, but the experience I had with the first two mouthpieces makes me think it is worth pursuing. And if turns out to be a dud-well it wouldnt be the first mouthpiece I have had that I didnt like.
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Author: Plonk
Date: 2010-06-26 11:24
If it was my mouthpiece I wouldn't want to part with it - if it was a nice brand and had been given to me by my dad it would have sentimental value whether or not it played well. I don't think you've got any right to ask for it - he might well say yes because he's embarrassed to say no, but it might hurt him a lot to give it away or sell it. Physical objects can hold all kinds of sentimental value that others can't comprehend. (Somebody here wanted to buy one of my recipe books off me, and I said no because although I would have the money to buy a new one, my old one is covered in stains and food which are part of its value to me - he couldn't understand that at all!)
Taking it off him and refacing it would be altering the value in his eyes too, probably.
I would ask if you can borrow it for a week or something, and then discuss it again after that time. You might decided you don't want it anyway, and he might get a feel for how valuable it is to him really.
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2010-06-26 13:45
Perhaps you can convince him that it would be for his legacy to allow you to put it to good use instead of just sitting on his shelf, or wherever. Tell him it's a bit like those wealthy collectors that buy an expensive art master piece or Stradivarius violin and keep it locked up for their own selfish reasons. Ask him if you can just borrow it to put it to use as some of those wealthy collectors do that "loan" there Stradivarius instruments to an accomplished player to use for their life time. ESP
http://eddiesclarinet.com
PS. It might sound more convincing over a bottle of wine, or after the bottle.
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Author: stevensfo
Date: 2010-06-26 14:24
-- "But I dont think the money is the issue-it is the fact that his father gave it to him that I think is probably the issue. " --
Having been in similar situations - though nothing to do with clarinets - I think you should be absolutely honest with him and just say that you want to try it. I have things from my late father that I would not part with for any money, but I would willingly lend them to people who recognise and appreciate the value.
Steve
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Author: kdk
Date: 2010-06-26 15:22
"This is not one of the really old ones. I check Ebay regularly to see how much they go for, and the vintage he has seems to go in the $150-200 range."
Given that the one you asked about isn't impressive in its current condition, wouldn't it be easier to buy one of the Cheds you've seen on Ebay in that price range (of the same vintage as the one your relative owns)? It would be a little more expensive but not so much of a difference if it might avoid the awkwardness of trying to get your hands on the in-law's Ched. You might even get something better.
What "vintage" is this mouthpiece from? I tried some (then) new Chedevilles back during the late 1970s and they were definitely not the same mouthpieces as the legendary ones. In fact, I think I still have one lying around somewhere that you could have if you wanted it, but I don't think you'd find it to be very impressive, either.
Karl
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Author: Chris J
Date: 2010-06-26 15:33
Why be tricky about it. People respect honesty.
Ask him how attached he is to it because you would really like to buy it from him.
Check out a shared understanding of its value.
If he doesn't want or need the money, offer to donate the amount to his favourite charity.
If he says he is too attached to it to part with it, nothing lost.
Even better, encourage him to take up the clarinet again and offer to help him find an instrument.
Chris
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Author: salzo
Date: 2010-06-28 13:30
Thanks to everyone for their suggestions, opinions, etc.
I "think" what I am going to do, is have another relative, who I am close with, who is also closer to the other relative with the mouthpiece, let him know that I am interested in the mouthpiece. I think that might make things less awkward- if the guy with the mouthpiece doesnt want to let it go, it would probably be easier for him to tell someone other than the guy who actually wants it. If there is any awkwardness (I am assuming there could be, for all I know he might say "no problem you can have it")this might help avoid it.
Thanks again for all of the suggestions.
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