 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Bill
Date: 2000-12-20 00:17
I just received a new Yamaha SEV for trial. It has some excellent features for the price - $1,849, seems to be well made as well as rugged. It has silver plated keys, and a hard case and a soft cover.
The interesting thing is that each tenon (3) has a metal "cap". I initially thought this was a very positive feature in that it could reduce the possibility of cracking or damage by accident. Then I started wondering why they would do this atypical thing. For example the R-13s that I've looked at don't have tenon caps at all, and the Leblanc Concerto and Infinite has one cap, on the left hand section tenon that inserts in the barrel.
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Author: Ken Rasmussen
Date: 2000-12-20 00:54
I like tenon caps. For me they are a big plus. In my opinion the end grain wicks moisture into the wood much faster than the grain in the bore or exterior. I think putting moisture into the end grain is an invitation to a cracked horn. Tenons get banged around some too. I don't know what people do to them, but one sure sees of lot of chipped tenons. Some people think tenon caps kill the vibration of the horn, but other people say that the horn shouldn't be vibrating in the first place. We hear much about people looking for a dark sound. Perhaps killing a few unwanted vibrations is a good thing?
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Author: jbutler
Date: 2000-12-20 01:38
For what it's worth I really like the SEV. If I could afford to buy a NEW clarinet, it would be my choice especially considering the price. However, I've got too many clarinets that I don't exercise now, mostly vintage Selmers that I've restored. I can't justify it (especially to the wife.)
John
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Author: William
Date: 2000-12-20 02:05
Also, LeBlanc may have been trying to correct the tendencies of their clarinets to crack from the top of the tendon down through the side trill keys. Our local repair techs consider this a problem with the LeBlanc product that doesnt seem exist with other brands. Hope it works 'cause I like my Concertos and think that they are everything that they have been "cracked up" to be. Good claryneting.
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2000-12-20 03:43
Bill,
The Buffet Festival has tenon caps for sure; other models may also have caps.
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Author: Hiroshi
Date: 2000-12-20 04:30
Selmer signature and Buffet Prestige have metal tenons too.
However,Rossi is one bodied disliking bad influences on tones by metal tenons.
It surely affects the pressure nodes inside of clarinets and seems reasonable to me.
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2000-12-20 04:55
????
Why would the rings change the nodes?? The bore size does not change at all with the rings there.
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Author: Slownoise
Date: 2000-12-20 08:40
Generally speaking, top line clarinets do have metal caps on the tenons, as part of their enhanced features.
I do own a Buffet DG model (today out of production but similar to the festival) and each tenon (3) has a metal "cap".
Keep in mind, however, that the most important thing is how the clarinet sounds to you.
Slownoise
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2000-12-20 10:10
Well said Ken and Mark.
I think ALL wooden oboes have caps.
I have installed perhaps a hundred caps on ill-fitting tenons.
Caps are the greatest! They stabilize the tenon diameter and stop jamming, which is VERY common with new capless horns.
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2000-12-20 10:14
But yes, suspicious thinker, some caps MAY have been installed to fix or hide damage during manufacture.
I have met the occasional ex-factory cap-less Selmer Paris with multiple splits in the tenon, presumably from an inappropriate mounting method (conical 'centre') in a lathe. These HAD to have caps!
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Author: bob gardner
Date: 2000-12-20 15:09
All of my better horns have caps and i think it is a great feature. I have never seen a cheap horn with one. What does that tell you.
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Author: Ken Shaw
Date: 2000-12-20 17:06
Some models have metal tenon caps, and others don't. I've never noticed any difference in playing qualities. I wouldn't suspect a cracked tenon unless I saw a cap on a model that didn't normally have one. It would be cheaper for a manufacturer to throw a cracked joint away than to fit a special cap that's not normally there.
Best regards.
Ken Shaw
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Author: Amanda Rose
Date: 2000-12-20 20:25
I have seen caps on some of the wooden student Yamahas at my school (the ones in that HUGE plastic case). I don't really think any of those girls realize what they do or why they are there. :oP Anyway, R13s don't have them and I really haven't had any problem with mine. My brother, a repair tech, isn't a big fan of them.
Amanda ROse
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Author: Hiroshi
Date: 2000-12-21 02:22
Mark:
It does not change the bore but changes the pressure distribution and the
locations of nodes inside the horn.
Typical example is trumpet brace location or valve bottom cap mass. The difference of mass affects greatly on the sound of the trumpets.That's why many pro changes these parts. I thought there 'may' be an analogy between this and clarinet's metal tenon.
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Author: jbutler
Date: 2000-12-21 11:49
William,
I don't know of a LeBlanc clarinet problem with cracking in the upper joint. Perhaps this is a local problem with your climate. I've seen very few (single digits) LeBlanc clarinets with the problem you describe. By contrast I've seen a lot of older Selmer clarinets with cracks in the upper joint. I've seen a fair amount of Buffets with this problem, but not very many Yamahas. Perhaps I live in a LeBlanc friendly environment.
John
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2000-12-21 14:08
I don't think so. The clarinet walls do not appreciably contribute to any component of the sound, as has been proven a number of times. If the walls do not vibrate (they are well over 60db down from the air column) thaey are not absorbing energy to any appreciable amount, and the addition of a ring with no change in bore size wouldn't alter the sound a whit.
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2000-12-21 14:22
Mark I find your comments here and elsewhere refreshing in their scientific substance. The forum is lucky to have you.
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Author: Larry
Date: 2000-12-21 14:50
Here's a variation on the theme:
Some Selmer Recitals have tenon caps, others don't - hence variation within the same model instrument. What gives?
Also, the Signature's caps only cover half of the tenon surface, thereby negating any beneficial moisture obviating factors at the "wick", but allowing for wood-to-wood contact (Selmer's marketing term) throughout the entire length of the instrument. In other words, purely cosmetic stuff. I like the Signature, but think much of its design is marketing (not musically) driven.
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Author: Bill
Date: 2000-12-21 14:55
I was disappointed with the sound of the Yamaha SEV compared to the other clarinets I've been trialing. It sounded okay, but a bit "dull". I use the same mouthpiece (Hite Premier) for the trials. Last night I decided to try the Yamaha mouthpiece that came with the SEV. I was pleasantly surprised by the improvement.
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2000-12-23 09:21
The Signature has pad cups and hence pads that are barely adequate to cover the low tone holes, let alone seal reliably. I regard this as a disgraceful piece of design. Whatever the excuse it is not good enough. I suspect that they just could not be bothered setting up dies for making a larger pad cup to cover their enlarged diameter tone holes.
This sort of scruffiness is also reflected (especially in some other models) in their random use of inadequate synthetic cork on tenons, the stupidly grooved tenons which need thick cork and do not allow the glue to hold so well, the tenon corks without chamferred edges, jamming tenon timber, the soft spongy pads, and a whole lot more examples in their saxophones. Sure, they design acoustically great instruments but it is time their scruffy manufacturing standards were brought into the open - otherwise they will never do anything about it. This also applies equally to several other top makers.
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