 The Clarinet BBoard
|
Author: Rissa Young
Date: 2000-12-20 14:55
What are the differences between Moennig and Chadash barrels? I know that the difference is the bore size, but what exactly does that mean? I play on a buffet E-11, and I am always sooo sharp.I know that it's because I am playing on an intermediate hron. I'm getting a professional horn upon graduation. Why would I need a different barrel anyway? Grrrr I'm so confluzed! Could some of you Clarinet guru's please shed some light on me? Thanks ever so much,
*~Rissa~*
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Anji
Date: 2000-12-20 15:06
I'm no GURU, but I have just driven down this same road.
I have had both a Moening and Chadash barrel on my horn (although I tend to play flat, rather than sharp).
The Moening barrels are apparently turned out by machine at Buffet.
Mr. Chadash makes his one at a time, by hand (okay, he turns them on a lathe).
Theoretically, when the dimensions are the same, they should play the same.
They most definitely have different character, but it is mouthpiece dependent.
I use a Vandy M13 with a Chadash 640 (64mm) to get good tuning and a reasonable approximation of Concert A.
Your relative pitch probably has more to do with the mouthpiece than the horn.
I like to think or the horn as the necessary life support system for the reed.
Please consider the following recommendation;
After getting your new horn and working with the delivered barrel ( you might actually like it, as is); determine if you're generally sharp or flat and set up a trial with one of the mail order houses.
They do have a restocking fee per item and a time limitation, so be aware of the constraints.
Me, I loathe paying retail and browse both the Sneezy classifieds and eBay.
Lastly, I know its heresy to suggest this..(groan) the Click barrel offers real tuning capability for $40. It's worth looking into for the short run.
Best of luck in this,
It's a tough one
anji
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Dee
Date: 2000-12-20 15:19
I agree that it is more likely that it is your mouthpiece that is the cause of your playing sharp. What mouthpiece are you using?
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Ken Shaw
Date: 2000-12-20 16:43
Rissa -
The Buffet Moenig barrels are, I'm pretty sure, machine made. The difference between them and the standard Buffet barrels is that the Moenigs have a reverse taper. That is, the bore is smaller at the bottom of the barrel than it is at the top. This improves tuning, response and tone quality.
The Buffet Chadash barrels also have a reverse taper, designed by Guy Chadash, which is slightly different from the Moenig taper. These barrels are also machine made. I don't know whether Guy Chadash personally checks each one and tweaks it. He may, but even if he does, it's a generic tweak. My impression from trying them is that both Moenig and Chadash barrels play better than the standard Buffet barrels, but that there's no consistent character.
The real difference comes when an top barrel maker, like Guy Chadash, makes the final adjustments, with you there, based on your instrument, your mouthpiece and your playing style. When you get your professional horn, I can pretty much guarantee you will be pleased if you go to Chadash in New York and have him customize a barrel for you. At the very least, you should send him your instrument and mouthpiece and have him make a barrel specifically for them.
Greg Smith and Jim Pyne also make matched mouthpiece/barrel combinations, Greg Smith with Chadash barrels and Jim Pyne with his own.
Greg Smith also sells complete instruments, set up to play like the ones he uses in the Chicago Symphony. Guy Chadash has started making his own instruments, as has Charles Bay. I have not played any of these, but it's inevitable that one of them (or a Rossi) will play better than practically any instrument you could find in a music store. Of course they cost a good bit more.
Some intermediate options (all of which have good reputations, but none of which I have personal familiarity with):
- Order from Muncy Winds, which selects and preps Buffets;
- Order from International Music Suppliers, which is said to have access to good instruments;
- Order a selected and prepped instrument from Peter Spriggs;
- Buy an instrument and send it to Brannen for finishing.
I play on R-13s set up by Kalmen Opperman, with his mouthpiece and barrels. For me, they play better than anything else I've tried, and I don't miss the money I paid for them. I bought them once, and they pay me back every time I pick up the instrument.
Good luck.
Ken Shaw
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Rissa
Date: 2000-12-20 18:24
Right now I'm playing on a Morgan RM-06 mouthpiece (hard-rubber, duckbill), and I absolutely love it. I do know however, that Morgan makes RM-10s, which are better, but since he handmakes them, it takes a while..I waited a year and a half for my 6. Should I try for a 10?
Thanx
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: lee
Date: 2000-12-20 22:08
Mr.Shaw
where can you find Mr. Chadash in NewYork
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Hiroshi
Date: 2000-12-21 02:06
Additional info:
1. There is a very detailed description on Moennig barrel at Hite site, one of
Sneezy sponcers: how it was designed, the dimensions, and necessary
adjustment.
2. International Music Supplier(its owner is a student of Robert Marcellus)
sells Buffet R-13 seriese selected by Greg Smith and with his mouthpiece.
And maybe with Chadash barrel.
3. I think it counts to reamer the mouthpiece and barrel to eliminate the slightest
step between them to smoothen air flow.
4. Chadash has bore selections 'A' barrel is smaller than standard.
Greg will recommend which one is suitable for your future pro grade
instument.
By the way I have Greg Smith Kasper and Chadash 'A' barrel for my Selmer 10SII*.
I am satisfied with this set.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Ken Rasmussen
Date: 2000-12-21 03:04
Does any one know what magical thing people like Chadash are doing when they match mouthpiece and barrel to a horn? I'm working as a machinist, and the barrel appears to be a simple thing, with easily measured and reproduced dimensions. The horns ought to be standard, at least for a given year and model, and so should the mouthpieces. I can well imagine that certain dimension horns ought not to be combined with barrels and mouthpieces that are dimensionally inappropriate and incompatible. Perhaps that is the trick--none of the incompatibilities are written down where we can know about them, but the experts know what they are and can avoid them, or modify components to eliminate or alleviate the problems. I'm just speculating. The barrel appears so simple to me. . . .
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: ron b
Date: 2000-12-21 19:28
Perhaps I, too, am too simplistic in my thinking but, I'm inclined to agree with Ken. If the barrel's length is about right for playing at or near A-440 pitch and the bore is a reasonable match to the mpc and horn bore size(s), what more can be done? The 'taper', if any, might make a slight difference in 'resistance' but, really, it's such a short distance (length), you can't do much about it. Isn't that, resistance and so forth, more dependent on the properties of the reed, mouth piece, (okay, factor in the ligature if you must) ?
The horn, including the barrel, is a tube. The business end of the instrument, the sound making department, is the mouthpiece which connects directly to the player.
A pretty good player using a good mouthpiece setup can do wonders with any horn, student model or whatever. Give that same player a bum mouthpiece and ....
ron b
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Anji
Date: 2000-12-21 20:59
I spoke with a venerable mouthpiece tuner this week about learning my way around refinishing mouthpieces.
His advice was, "Turn back while you still can...it will ruin your life."
He touched on the subject of matching mouthpieces to the "Right" barrel.
He also has extensive metrology background and aluded to the moving nature of our target. If simple (albeit an exacting standard) measurement were enough to wring the best sound out of a clarinet, we would all be using crystal mouthpieces matched to aluminum barrels. Or at least we would employ inextensible materials that vary less with temperature and humidity.
What Mr. M pointed out is that no amount of measuring can make up for play testing.
I think the frequently overlooked factors are the player's own naso-pharyngeal space (its a big resonator, just ask a singer) and the player's own control of airflow.
Play testing gives immediate evidence of the bast impedance match.
My supposition (completely unfounded, and perhaps bunk) is that when you match a barrel to your mouthpiece and horn, you're maximizing the linkage between your own internal air pressure and the resistance of the horn.
But then again, my cranial resonator is encased in a 3" thick skull.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Lynn
Date: 2000-12-21 21:54
I've found that a lot of E-11s come from the factory with big intonation problems, and I tell my students to try more than one instrument (same or different brands) out before they pick an instrument. So while it definitely could be your mouthpiece, it also could be your horn. Have your private teacher try the instrument with a tuner so you can figure out which it is.
Lynn
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Ken Shaw
Date: 2000-12-22 14:34
>Author: lee (---.proxy.aol.com)
>Date: 12-20-00 18:08
>Mr.Shaw -
>Where can you find Mr. Chadash in New York?
Lee -
From The Retail Trade page on Sneezy:
Guy Chadash
440 W 41st St.
Ste 3A
New York,NY 10036 USA
Tel: (212)239-7187
Barrels
He has a web page, the address of which I have lost, but it's still unfinished.
Best regards.
Ken Shaw
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
The Clarinet Pages
|
 |
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
