 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: clarinete09
Date: 2010-06-09 15:10
Hello! I am about to order a Bb Chadash clarinet, Could you guys share with me your experiences, knowledges,thoughts,positives or negatives reviews about those clarinets!! I would appreciate your help!
Post Edited (2010-06-09 15:25)
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Author: clarinete09
Date: 2010-06-09 15:28
Please comment here!
emails are welcome but I think is more useful if we share with all here!
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Author: Morrigan
Date: 2010-06-09 15:30
Sounds like you're ordering and have never tried his clarinets?
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Author: Ed
Date: 2010-06-09 16:08
They are well designed, but I would suggest that anybody look at all of the options available today.
Post Edited (2010-07-17 00:59)
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Author: GLHopkins
Date: 2010-06-09 16:11
If you like them buy one and give us a review.
Post Edited (2010-06-09 16:13)
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Author: clarinete09
Date: 2010-06-09 16:21
Yes I will.. but I am just looking for experiences you guys have had with Chadash Clarinets..
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Author: DAVE
Date: 2010-06-09 16:21
Yamaha has a 5 year crack warranty and some of the best clarinets available and they are CHEAP in comparison to other brands...
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Author: Jack Kissinger
Date: 2010-06-09 16:52
Why not tell Guy Chadash that you would like impressions of his clarinets from some current owners and ask him if he can provide you with contact information? You could also ask him to respond to specific criticisms of his work that you may have heard.
Best regards,
jnk
Post Edited (2010-06-18 15:14)
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Author: clarinete09
Date: 2010-06-09 18:09
I have recieved this email.
"
"Hello!
I saw your posting on the clarinet board. I've worked on and played
several of Guy's clarinets. Some are very good, some are not. His wood
is usually very high quality, but the keywork is marginal. He has issues
with keys coming un-soldered, and the horns are generally not set up very
well. He offers lifetime repairs, but the work I've seen him do is not
good.
To sum up, I wouldn't order anything without an iron-clad return policy."
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2010-06-09 18:47
Jack, this is not only about Chadash's clarinets but it would apply to anything like this. If you ask a manufacture to send you the names of people that bought their product so you can ask them their opinion they will only send you the names of those that are satisfied, not the ones that aren't or those that had problems.
Personally, I won't ever order a custom made instrument because I want to be able to try them out before I purchase them. I prefer to be able to try 6 to 10 to pick the one I like best not to assume the manufacture knows what I want and can make one perfectly for me. There is no such thing as a perfect clarinet, they're all slightly different no matter who makes them. That's just me though, there are players that have done that with several custom clarinet manufactures and have been very pleased, but then there are those that are not so happy. At least if you live close enough to the manufactures place of business, NY in Chadash's case, you can keep going back until he get's it the way you want it, if that's even possible in all cases.
I feel the same way about sending my clarinets for overhauls, I want to be there to pick it up and play it so before I leave the shop, it's exactly the way I want it to play, not the repair person. Each to our own. ESP http://eddiesclarinet.com
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Author: Ed
Date: 2010-06-09 18:53
Last I knew, Guy makes them in batches of a few at a time and often lets players choose the one they want.
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2010-06-09 19:00
Ed, that's good! I do know several players that play them and they are made very well. I've never heard anything otherwise. ESP
ESP eddiesclarinet.com
Post Edited (2010-06-09 22:08)
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Author: Jack Kissinger
Date: 2010-06-09 22:31
Ed,
Of course he'll tend to provide satisfied customers but: (1) if one knows how to ask the right questions, one can still get a lot of useful information from satisfied customers, and (2) IMO, Guy Chadash deserves to know that someone is out their making negative comments about his product (behind his back) so that he has a chance to respond.
BTW, I agree that, if one is going to pay the price for a custom-made clarinet (or a tailor-made suit for that matter) one should participate actively to make sure it fits. But, to avoid wasting time, I would like to see references before I visit the clarinet maker (tailor).
Best regards,
jnk
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Author: Bob Bernardo
Date: 2010-06-09 23:59
As far as complaints go, if they are true complaints and you've work with the person to solve them, I feel the complaints are surely justified.
I've never had a mouthpiece returned, but if I did I surely would do my best to solve the problem or return the money. An example is Ebay, if the seller only has a 90 percent rating I won't mess with the seller. I would consider 99 percent, but thats as low as I would chance dealing with an ebay seller.
When I was in the Washington band I bought a lot of stuff from Chuck Levins Washington Music Center. I bought a Buffet clarinet and they allowed me to try over 20 horns. Needless to say I got a pretty good horn. In fact Iggie Gennusa went with me. He helped by getting the horn pretty much at cost.
So if Guy Hadash doesn't honor his workmanship people have a right to complain. From what I hear his horns are pretty darn good with little or no complaints.
Designer of - Vintage 1940 Cicero Mouthpieces and the La Vecchia mouthpieces
Yamaha Artist 2015
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Author: Liquorice
Date: 2010-06-10 00:05
Chadash clarinets cost around $5000. So all arguments regarding price of "custom made" clarinets are irrelevant in this discussion. Top range instruments by Buffet, Selmer and Leblanc cost more than this.
More pertinent is the point made by Ed Palanker:
When buying a clarinet from a big maker you have the opportunity to try maybe 5-10 instruments without obligation to buy. When you order from Chadash you might get 2-3 instruments to try, but this is already on the understanding that you will be purchasing one of those instruments. This is still a lot more generous than ordering from a "custom maker" like Wurlitzer or Seggelke, where you really have to accept what you have paid for.
The best you can do is to try as many of his instruments as you can, and talk with as many people who have purchased his instruments as possible. And see how flexible he can be with ordering and purchasing obligations.
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Author: genekeyes ★2017
Date: 2010-06-10 03:34
I've been using Chadash Clarinets since 2004 and have had extensive dealings (including 4 or 5 overhauls and modifications on Buffet clarinets as well as the purchase of a set of Chadash Clarinets) since that time. If I can be of help, please email me and I'll be happy to relate my experiences with Guy, his instruments and his workmanship. If you have specific questions regarding his instruments or custom work, I would contact him directly at www.chadashclarinet.com
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Author: Steven Barta
Date: 2010-06-10 17:22
I have been using Chadash Clarinets in the Baltimore Symphony for over a decade now. I began playing them because the newer clarinets that I had tried no longer possessed the clarity, subtlety and depth of tone that I had come to expect from my Vintage Buffet R13 instruments. Chadash clarinets sound and feel very much like vintage Buffets. They have a very even scale and intonation that is superior to any thing that I have played. Throat E and F are not flat and twelfth high B and C are placed very well and are very user friendly. The tone is nicely focused, has a robust quality in forte and maintains the shape and focus very well through your best pianissimo.
I noticed an anonymous criticism on this forum regarding the key work on Chadash Clarinets. I have no idea what he or she is referring to. I have owned five Chadash clarinets and currently have two sets. Except for the usual seasonal issues that are easily maintained with a little swedging, I have had no problem with the key work. Certainly nothing more than was necessary to properly maintain my Buffets. The keys are well placed and the action is quite nimble and smooth and the weight of the instrument is just right. I would also point out that Guy's instruments are delivered completely ready to play with cork pads etc. No overhauls are needed to get them to play up to professional standards. Custom tuning is available to suit your individual needs and his warranty is as good as it gets. I would beware of anonymous postings. If someone is not willing to identify themselves, how can you judge or trust their critique?
If you want to purchase an instrument that projects a beautiful warm and brilliant sound with excellent response from someone who actually cares about the way a clarinet should sound, the Chadash Clarinet is for you.
Steven Barta
Principal Clarinet, Baltimore Symphony Orchestra
Faculty Peabody Institute of the Johns Hopkins University.
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Author: William
Date: 2010-06-10 17:36
Regardless of what anyone else has to say, it is best to try before you buy--or at least, have a firm return policy in writing prior to purchase.
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Author: JJAlbrecht
Date: 2010-06-11 00:26
Why? Peeople on this board are not hesitant to tell the truth about instruments, mouthpieces, reeds or anything else trelated to the clarinet. I would think that a user who had a bad experience with a Chadash product would be no different.
My daughter is very pleased witht he barrel she selected for her R13 A clarinet. It's a Buffet-Chadash, and made a big improvement in the way the instrument responds.
Jeff
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Author: J. J.
Date: 2010-06-11 01:18
Okay, then. In my experience, I have only encountered Chadash clarinets that have poor intonation. They don't sound that bad, but are pretty flawed in terms of intonation being all over the place. This isn't really that surprising. It's not easy to manufacture instruments. Every custom clarinet runs the risk of poor design and a small sample to choose from. I don't buy for a second that he's recreated some magic from older R13 models. That's the type of unquantifiable statement that you're free to accept if you're not depending on your performance on that instrument to propel your career further. Dealing with a small maker there is always pressure to want the instrument to be good, and so people can be fooled. If you are close to the clarinet maker, that makes it even harder. This is what I have seen in those people who had Chadash clarinets only to discard them later when they realized that they were kind of funky. Those people fixed their issues almost overnight by lifting the spell that can be wrought by subjective, personal experiences. As clarinetists, we have an amazing capacity to fool ourselves.
The wood is fine, the keywork is also very good. Buying a clarinet, however, is an expensive and important decision not to be fooled around with. If you have nothing to lose, feel free to play in the custom market. You might get lucky, but you won't be buying into an upper echelon of ability.
Post Edited (2010-06-18 05:30)
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2010-06-11 03:55
>> Why? Peeople on this board are not hesitant to tell the truth about instruments, mouthpieces, reeds or anything else trelated to the clarinet. <<
Maybe. When I tried and thoroughly checked an instrument that got many reviews on this forum I found many problems that were never mentioned. Only very good reviews with an occasional very small criticism. None of the issues (including a few very serious ones) were ever mentioned. Reading the reviews, and a sudden lack of them at some point, I felt that people did feel uncomfortable posting negative reviews. Or instead the alternative, it's very suprising that no one, including what seem to be professional players, could notice any of those problems.
Edit: To clarify, I'm not talking about Chadash clarinets at all which I've never tried. I was posting specifically to the quote which is general.
Post Edited (2010-06-12 05:10)
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Author: jnswickard
Date: 2010-06-11 14:39
I have never tried one of his clarinets. He did completely overhaul an Auguste Buffet for me in 2001. In addition to a standard overhaul he lengthened the register key, moved the RK tone hole, raised several tone holes, and matched a Chadash barrel to the horn. His work was excellent.
It was a much different and better horn when he finished.
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Author: TianL
Date: 2010-06-11 20:48
my teacher (who graduated with a PHD from julliard in the 80s and a very excellent player) recently bought a Bb chadash and he liked it a lot. He then bought an A from guy chadash a couple of months later. he has been playing buffets for many years but now only play on chadash.
I believe guy chadash makes his clarinet based on R13 but tries to improve several things. it sounds a bit different and i prefer the chadash sound just a little bit more. the sound is a little lighter and more colorful. but that's different for everyone.
the weight is noticeable lighter than R13.
intonation, at least on my teacher's ones, is close to perfect.
keywork feels about the same as R13.
i believe guy makes a couple at a time, and if you talk to him, you will get to try them out first and pick one. (of course, you will have to go there). if you don't go there, and receive the clarinet through the mail, then you wouldn't get to pick one. my teacher said he was very glad he went because he chose the one he liked best.
one downside is that there is no warranty. if it cracks, you will have to pay him to repair it for you.
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Author: dangilbert
Date: 2010-06-15 04:53
Hello:
I can only speak from my own personal experience with Mr. Chadash. I have known him since 1990 and he has worked on my instruments consistently since then. His work is excellent, in my opinion. There is no job that is beyond his abilities. I also have a set of Chadash clarinets and I find them to be of excellent quality. The tone is resonant, rich and warm and the intonation is great. He does very little undercutting when he makes the instrument, so you can have him adjust the tuning to your liking. My advice to you is to make an appointment and try them. He usually has a few for you to select from at any given point....Good luck
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Author: William
Date: 2010-06-15 14:57
I have never played one of Guy's instruments, but I have played a Rossi that was quite good. It was an "American" bore Bb clarinet at the old IMS in DesPlaines, Il. Moreover, a good friend of mine has a Rossi which sounds very good in her hands. For your info, here is the site:
http://www.rossiclarinet.com/
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Author: Tobin
Date: 2010-06-15 16:26
I am about to receive a Rossi french bore Bb from Luis. His correspondence has been excellent throughout the process. I will post more about the instrument once I've worked it into playing condition.
James
Gnothi Seauton
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Author: genekeyes ★2017
Date: 2010-06-15 17:29
J.J................Not knowing anything about you or your background and based on your posting, I would unfortunately have to assume that your "experience" with Chadash clarinets is very limited and as such suspect. As I have said in an earlier posting, I own a set and have had many dealings with Guy over an extended period of time. Your statement about the intonation on Chadash clarinets being "all over the place" is inaccurate.........the intonation on these clarinets is among the best in the industry..........if you don't believe this, you only have to look at the names and positions of the people that make a living playing them. Furthermore, my experience, after playing what I am sure is many more of them than you, is that their level of consistency is on a par with the best around....you don't have to try 20 clarinets to get a good one........as a matter of fact, I've never played a bad one.
Guy has never claimed to have"recreated magic from older R-13 models". The truth of the matter is that for as long as I can remember, the standard of the industry for classical players has been, in spite of it's well known short comings, the R-13. This statement is not meant to demean any of the other fine clarinets available in today's market. Because Guy has used and improved on the R-13 model, players like myself and many others have found the switch to a clarinet that has retained the much sought after characteristics of a good R-13, while improving on some of the problems, a relatively easy and painless change.
Dealing with a small clarinet maker gives the player the opportunity to take a fine instrument and to customize it to meet their own requirements....a service that larger companies cannot offer and which would require the additional time and expense of having the instrument set up to meet your personal taste. By the way..........I would be interested in talking to any of those Chadash owners who are getting rid of their"funky clarinets"......I'm sure I have students that would be interested in them. Your entire analysis of how people people can be easily fooled is faulty. If you cannot tell the difference between a good instrument and a bad one, you probably would not be looking at five thousand dollar instruments, unless the cost is of no consequence to you...... I don't know many clarinet players who currently fall into that category.
Your entire posting reads like a collection of mis-informed ramblings or even worse, an attempt to discredit a fine craftsman who consistently produces products of the highest quality.......
disclaimer: I do not work for or with Guy Chadash. I use and enjoy his products and services.
GK
Post Edited (2010-06-15 17:59)
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Author: GLHopkins
Date: 2010-06-16 01:47
J.J., tell us more, because I can't imagine a custom built clarinet with intonation "all over the place". I haven't seen run of the mill pro clarinets with intonation all over the place.
Post Edited (2010-06-16 01:49)
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Author: J. J.
Date: 2010-06-18 00:06
Gene................................just so we're clear, you seem to be of the mind that I'm mis-informed because I happen to disagree with you on these issues. I thought my post was plenty coherent. It might have suffered from being a bit short, but honestly I didn't feel like writing a page-long epistle on why I didn't think they were a good buy. People noted that there wasn't much criticism so I provided it. I stand by my assessment of the instruments in my experience. You may feel differently, but that doesn't make me guilty of trying to "discredit a fine craftsman who consistently produces products of the highest quality......."
I'm sorry, but I'm not going to be much more specific about the instruments I've played or the players who discarded them. I don't have the right to say anything that might identify them and hurt any relationships they may have with Guy himself or any teacher who favors his instruments. My take on the intonation stems from a double-pronged problem of testing the intonation myself and comparing the major difficulties they had playing at a high level with other musicians. I would also note that those playing situations did not involve just other clarinetists, mitigating any implication that it's just a bias towards Buffet intonation tendencies.
I could provide a chart detailing where I think it had issues, but nobody wants to read that and take my opinion on it. That's why I base it off of issues the players themselves had and their happiness after moving on from the clarinets. When I refer to "funky" intonation or it being all over the place, what I mean is that with a good clarinet, you would expect some overall pitch tendencies in different ranges to be at least close. If you take a block of 6 throat tones, you would rather they mostly be low or mostly be high, but not both because this means you have to work harder with voicing. This is what I found with the clarinets. Your experience may differ, but guess what? I was offering my own experience and opinion which, incidentally, was exactly what the original post asked for.
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Author: J. J.
Date: 2010-06-18 00:07
I'd like to make one other note about this issue of whether or not players, including good players, can be fooled by a relationship with a clarinet maker. With all that was being said in my first post, that comment may have been a little out of place. The fact remains, though, is that people do fool themselves. It happens all the time. It has happened most in this industry in regards to mouthpieces, barrels, and bells. The great thing about the tiny clarinet community is that everyone is accessible and it's easy to work with the best craftsmen, To pretend, though, that those relationships don't affect someone's perception of their work is just incorrect. I am not saying that that happens all the time. I'm also not saying that the advantages of working with a small maker don't outweigh the chance that you might not make a purchase based solely on the quality of a product. But to blindly say that even discerning players don't allow this to happen is wishful thinking. It's not a big deal most of the time, but it's something that should be recognized.
There's a reason endorsements shouldn't matter at all. I think Martin Frost is awesome, and I know he plays some Chadash Clarinets. I'm sure he believes in them. But I would never use that as a testament to the clarinets, because he also sounds fantastic on Buffets. If he likes the handmade aspect and the extra attention he can get from Guy Chadash, all power to him. But that doesn't mean that the instruments are a safe bet for a consumer. It takes a very confident and established player to go through the trouble of trying one (if they get the chance) and turning it down for that type of reason. It takes an even more confident person to come back to Chadash and request that some pitch be changed. Maybe he's great to work with, but that's a scenario that might not be so easy. It's just as likely that the player will blame themselves and never address the root of the problem. This is exactly what happens with mouthpieces and barrels today. It also happens with small clarinet makers, but there's usually an even more involved relationship there.
Gene, I will not question your motivations. I'm glad you like his clarinets, but I would ask you if you can completely divorce your relationship with Chadash to your assessment of his clarinets. Look what happened in this thread. You posted that you've used them a long time and love them. Then I said that I did not and that there are risks with a small maker and you kind of attacked me for no reason. Are you entirely dispassionate when it comes a discussion about these clarinets?
For the record, I love Chadash barrels. I love them because they tend to play very freely on R-13s and help raise the pitch of the throat tones a bit. I'll use nothing else on R-13s. But you know, someone else may not like them and have a legitimate criticism. I know some people love Chris Hill's mouthpieces, made from a blank developed in concert with Guy Chadash. I also know people who really wanted them to work but got off them a year later when they realized that this fruitless search for "chedeville rubber" wasn't yielding better results. In the end, I've seen the same happen with players and Chadash Clarinets. You really can't blame me for relaying these experiences as a cautionary tale. These experiences aren't limited to Chadash products. They happen all the time with all kinds of products, but people don't realize it until after the fact.
Jim
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Author: hellochris
Date: 2010-06-18 00:29
JJ. I recommend you should learn how to play in tune before you assess if a "clarinet" plays in tune.
Post Edited (2010-06-18 00:50)
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Author: JJAlbrecht
Date: 2010-06-18 00:44
Hellochris, was that comment really necessary? Do you even know Jim and his playing style? Do you play on Chadash clarinets? If not, even if spoken in jest, that comment was pretty low. Different people will have different intonation issues with given equipment, regardless of the quality of the instrument. Otherwise, everyone ,ight as well play exactly the same setup on the same model of instrument. Not to mention that Jim's experience might very well indicate that he got a bad instrument. It happens with all instrument makers, even expensive ones.
All I know about Mr. Chadash's instruments has been what I have heard from others, so I will not make any judgment as to who is correct in this discussion. As I mentioned above, my daughter plays on a Chadash barrel and says it has really made a difference on her A clarinet. I don't have personal experience beyond that, and would certainly not make accusations about another player's musicianship, simply based on this thread. That would not be fair.
“Everyone discovers their own way of destroying themselves, and some people choose the clarinet.” Kalman Opperman, 1919-2010
"A drummer is a musician's best friend."
Post Edited (2010-06-18 00:44)
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Author: hellochris
Date: 2010-06-18 00:47
I have played MANY chadash clarinets. If there is anything you should be worried about, it is NOT the intonation (maybe the fragility of cracking?)
yours truly,
Chris
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Author: genekeyes ★2017
Date: 2010-06-18 03:47
J.J.
This will be my last response to this thread online..............if you would like to continue this off line, you can contact me privately.
You are obviously free to express your opinions about any instrument but again, I question the validity of a statement that the intonation of Chadash clarinets is "all over the place" and again I ask you to look at the players who have responded to this thread and who rely on Chadash Instruments to make a living............not one response has even hinted at confirming your opinion.......actually, it has been just the opposite. Furthermore, I think we all know that there is no manufacturer large or small that has ever, or will ever make a clarinet that is perfectly in tune for every player in every situation. The woodwind instrument that needs no adjustment by the player has never and will never be a reality. There are just too many variables. Learning to play in tune is part of learning to play.
That being said, I have found that Chadash clarinets are consistently closer to the ideal than any other brand that I have tried in almost 50 years of professional playing. While I have not sampled all of the instruments made by all of the smaller manufacturers, I have played many of them, and certainly the offerings of all of the majors that service the US market (Buffet, Selmer, Leblanc, Yamaha etc).....
In addition, my personal experience.....and observation is that Guy works with his clients to give them an instrument that tunes and responds to their individual needs..........again....an observation that is corroborated by fine players on this list and elsewhere............your statement that the intonation on his clarinets is "all over the place" is a blanket indictment that is not reflective of the experiences of any other responders to this thread. If indeed you have had repeated intonation problems with Chadash clarinets. perhaps you should consider the possibility that the problem is not with the clarinet.
One more small point..........I did not purchase instruments from Guy as a result of a long term relationship............the relationship developed after the purchase. And finally.....if you were to say that you don't like his instruments for whatever reason......that is your opinion. To comment on what you perceive to be a problem but is not recognized by numerous others to whom such a crucial deficiency would be very obvious, only serves as reason to question it's validity.
Post Edited (2010-06-18 04:08)
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Author: Chris Hill
Date: 2010-06-18 04:25
Jim,
Why did you decide to suddenly attack me and my work? Leave me out of this.
Thank you.
Chris Hill
BTW, I have nothing to do with Guy Chadash's clarinet making business.
Post Edited (2010-06-18 04:28)
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Author: GLHopkins
Date: 2010-06-18 04:47
If I were contemplating purchasing a custom clarinet I would be dismissive of vague criticisms. I would also not purchase a clarinet without first having spent a good deal of time playing it. This isn't like ordering a clarinet from WWBW, and up on arrival you determine that it isn't up to your expectations and send it back for a refund. I would want some ironclad recourse should you not like the clarinet.
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Author: J. J.
Date: 2010-06-18 04:57
Chris, I didn't mean to attack you. I was trying to focus only on Chadash products in that particulare example, but obviously you were hit in the process. As I noted, there are plenty of people happy with your work. Sorry for that.
As for the other remarks, please, let's not try and make this about me. That's a sad game to play. People wanted experiences and thoughts and I gave them. I never said they were all bad. The suggestion that I don't understand how to play in tune and can't evaluate a clarinet's internal intonation is laughable, trust me. If you don't agree with what I said, disagree and move on. Seriously, this is a ridiculous reaction to the one negative review offered up.
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Author: clancy
Date: 2010-06-18 11:27
Regarding J.J.s comment about Martin Frost - Martin does not play Chadash clarinets or mouthpieces.
He played a Chadash A clarinet for a period but it had some major mechanical issues and cracked so he sold it to a pupil.
He currently plays Tosca
R Wodkowski
www.ramonwodkowski.com
Post Edited (2010-06-18 11:27)
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Author: cpark
Date: 2010-06-18 16:28
couple things...
The original poster asked for both positive and negative reviews. Why the ad hominem attacks on JJ? He has no more obligation to prove his skill than any of the other posters who provided positive feedback. It's one persons opinion, take it for what it is and move on.
These kinds of requests for instrument reviews on this board always skew to the positive. What respected or highly regarded player would come out against these instruments(or any other highly regarded product)? Posting their negative thoughts here would serve only to alienate their colleagues in the clarinet world who are associated with the product under discussion.
On the other hand, amateur players' opinions with which you disagree, can be easily dismissed. It becomes an exercise in confirmation bias.
Chris
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Author: clarionet
Date: 2010-06-22 09:00
I think J J's contributions were rational and objectively put: do not understand why he or his playing/ or credetentials got attacked.
Note: That does not mean I necessarily agree with him but I think these are the kind of opnions that make this bulletin board useful.
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