 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Anji
Date: 2000-12-18 15:45
In an attempt to refine my sound, I've recently tried multiple mouthpieces. I have several from the current field of refinishers that I like and may or may not adopt as my main players.
I have a standard Vandoren M13 that my teacher considers acceptable in tone and fairly flexible for dynamics.
I have a hand finished piece from Dave Spiegelthal that I really dig, which is subdued but not too dark.
The NEMC stencilled Chedeville blank has lots of projection when played hard, but is really dark.
I tried a Kaspar Cicero and (I know it's heresey) didn't care for it.
Does anyone know about the H. Bettoney mouthpieces; what to expect from the tone, what V12 strength is the best match, facings, costs?
So far, I haven't lost money on any mpc that my teacher rejected... but the Bettoneys seem scarce, and therefore expensive.
Any suggestions from those who have trod the path before me?
anji
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Author: Ken Shaw
Date: 2000-12-18 17:33
Anji -
The Bettony company made several levels of metal clarinets. A few, labelled H. Bettony, were solid silver and were hand-finished artist-level horns. The Silva-Bet was a silver instrument that, I believe, did not get hand finishing, but is still worth getting. The 3-Star was silver plated and was better than the other metal instruments but not a collector's item. There were also other models. Leila Loban and Anne Bell know much more about them than I do.
The point is that all (or almost all) Bettony clarinets were shipped with Chedeville mouthpieces, stenciled with the H. Bettony name. The H. Bettony instruments may have gotten the great ones, but the other instruments were made with only standard quality Chedeville blanks. (Kalmen Opperman tole me that the best blanks had the legend "Qualite Superieure" stamped running up the side of the table.)
Nevertheless, H. Bettony mouthpieces are collectible and bring good prices, though of course not as much as those stamped Chedeville.
Very few metal Bettonys have the original mouthpieces, and the ones you find are almost always in poor condition, since they came with what were regarded as student level clarinets. That doesn't mean you shouldn't look -- only that you should be careful.
There are several people making Chedeville copies, including Greg Smith, Geneussa and Sayre. These will probably play better than any but the most pristine old ones.
Also, there was a discussion on the Klarinet board recently about Chedeville vs. Kaspar, where I believe Greg Smith said that Chedevilles were designed to play on the pre-R13 Buffets and did not do as well on the R13, whereas both Kaspars designed their mouthpieces for the original R13 (i.e., what's now called the Vintage).
I have a Qualite Superieure Lalandais stencil and an Ann Arbor Kaspar, but I like my Opperman better than either of them. My personal opinion is that you will get the best mouthpiece by going to one of the top makers and having a mouthpiece tweaked specifically for your instrument and your playing style. You'll also save money.
Best regards.
Ken Shaw
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Author: Gregory Smith
Date: 2000-12-18 18:49
Ken Shaw wrote:
"Also, there was a discussion on the Klarinet board recently about Chedeville vs. Kaspar, where I believe Greg Smith said that Chedevilles were designed to play on the pre-R13 Buffets and did not do as well on the R13, whereas both Kaspars designed their mouthpieces for the original R13 (i.e., what's now called the Vintage)."
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Either I mispoke or was misunderstood.
The Chedeville style mouthpieces play equally well on either the modern R13 or the pre-R13 (pre 1950's).
Frank Kaspar used the Chedeville Co. blanks for his mouthpieces. He just buffed off the markings like "qualitie superieure" stamped on the side of the table. Then he proceeded to sculpt his own unique version of that blank into a mouthpiece.
Greg Smith
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Author: Ken Shaw
Date: 2000-12-18 21:12
Greg -
Thanks for the information. I remember that *someone* said it, and I assumed it was you. Sorry for the mistake.
Best regards.
Ken Shaw
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2000-12-18 21:27
I have an old H B mp, it may have come with my H B USN wood cl [ pretty mediocre] but will check it out in a couple of weeks. I would guess it was made by Woodwind in NY, who made some dern-good mp's in the early 1900's, my G8 and B7 facings are among my best. M W commented earlier about any Cheborville [sp?] relationship, I dont know of it. Don
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Author: Douglas
Date: 2000-12-18 22:09
The Bettoney company sold more than just metal clarinets. I have had an Albert system clarinet made by E. Albert of Brussels (which I called my "Albert-Albert") with the Bettoney name stamped on the bell I have also seen several early Buffet clarinets with the Bettoney stamp on the bell. They imported and sold clarinets made in Europe in much the same way as Carl Fischer later did. Just wanted to point out that Bettoney marketed more than metal clarinets.
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Author: mw
Date: 2000-12-19 16:21
Many of the older Woodwind model mouthpieces were crafted using Ched blanks. Ditto for the Bettoney Co. I've heard it said before "Buy the Bettoney if it has the right mouthpiece, and throw the instrument away". (obviously tongue-in-cheek on the latter comment) mw
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Author: jim lande
Date: 2000-12-20 01:21
A small edit to what Ken said. Bettoney was indeed one of the largest sellers of band instruments between the wars and did sell oodles of student model instruments, . (The 3 Star and the Cadet models come to mind.) They also offered intermediate quality instruments as their Columbia model and the near-pro quality Silva Bet models. They offered both wood and metal versions of the Silva Bet. They also offered "bettonite" clarinets, which they said did not contain any rubber. I don't know if bettonite was used for top grade instruments.
The Silva Bets were silver plated over what Bettoney called "white metal" which appears to be some sort of german silver -- i.e. mostly nickel with no actual silver in it. [Haynes made about 300 solid silver clarinets. A few makers have offered models with solid silver keys. My Silva Bets all have plated keys. They are fine instruments and play much better than modern student quality instruments.]
One of mine came with a hard rubber mouthpiece marked H. Bettoney. The mpc had very little gap. I am used to a medium facing and could barely get anything out of it, regardless of what strength reed I used. I ended up swapping it for -- why yes, another Silva Bet. (O.K. so I am a nut case on old metal clarinets. At least most are cheaper than some of the mouthpieces!)
A few years back there was some discussion on older hard rubber mouthpieces and someone claimed that the actual quality of the hard rubber material was better in the good old days. Unfortunately, they said, the old rubber blanks were produced using industrial processes that are too polluting given today's laws. Could be true. Certainly there are folks who believe that the older models are better, and who will bid high prices for Silva Bets if they have an H. Bettoney mpc in the case.
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Author: Bill
Date: 2000-12-21 19:15
I have one of these Bettoney mouthpieces (and a Cundy-Bettony/Buffet clarinet with a bore smaller than my R-13). This is probably my "best" mouthpiece, and it plays best (no surprise!) with my 1938 Buffet. The opening on my mine is moderate with an incredibly short lay. I don't really believe mouthpieces have their "own" tone, but, matched with the right reed, this mouthpeice plays with great clarity and depth. The window is "short," and the sidewalls are angled (not drastically). A gentleman in the Baltimore orchestra plays one exclusively.
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Author: ant
Date: 2002-04-21 20:49
Does anyone here know anything about a clarinet I have. It is mared Buffet also has a mane on it "ARTIST" I think (quite worn) and it is wood in a small case with abell like shape on the end . It does have a serial # on both tubes 7189 as I can make out.
Thanks for your help. It comes with a saxophone that I want to buy. But the price is high and the owner said his father played it in the 20, and 30,s(clarinet) the sax I believe was made around 1935.
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