 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: karlbonner82
Date: 2010-05-11 11:39
Most Bb soprano clarinets can play down to nominal E, or D in real pitch. The low clarinets almost always have at least an Eb key at the bottom, and some of them go all the way to D. (Then there's the treble basset clarinet which gets to low C!)
I wonder if anyone makes Bb sopranos with both an Eb and a D key? I believe the extra two notes would be very useful - it gets you down to the lowest note on the viola for one thing, and also might make it easier for the clarinet to play an alto or tenor role in bands, orchestras and wind ensembles alike, by bridging the gap between the flute/oboe and the bassoon.
Anyway I'd love to someday own a horn that can go to D. It sounds like one of the most versatile ideas I've ever pondered.
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Author: chris moffatt
Date: 2010-05-11 12:01
maybe you're thinking of a basset clarinet?
http://www.answers.com/topic/clarinet-makers
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2010-05-11 12:49
All clarinets require the low E as much as they require throat Bb to offer all notes. Low Eb and low D aren't a necessity, though can be useful - low Eb on a Bb clarinet will give the same lowest note as an A clarinet's low E (which is why it's standard on bass clarinets to cover A bass parts) and also serves as a useful alternative to throat Bb.
The low D won't be as useful as an alternative low A due to the speaker tube being pushed to its limit - some clarinets (especially some A clarinets) are struggling with the upper register B due to the size and positioning of the speaker tube.
Bassoons will go up into the treble clef (up to E), so will be in unison with the flute and oboe's lower register and lower part of the upper register and clarinets will descend to the middle of the bass clef and go almost as high as a flute, so they're already being used as an alto and soprano voice in the one instrument.
In concert and military style bands, tenor saxes, horns, euphoniums and trombones will usually occupy the alto and tenor range and clarinets are generally treated as violins so get a lot of the soprano roles, playing right up in the stratosphere along with the flutes or as low as alto saxes to fill out this register.
It's only really the bass anc contra clarinets that will make more use of the extended lower register to provide useful bass parts in unison with the bassoons, bari saxes and tubas, then again they do get written as tenor instruments and parts often go up as hich as a tenor saxes upper register.
Having nearly a four 8ve range does make clarinets versatile, though this can be both a blessing and a curse if the arranger only goes by a range chart and not fully understanding the nature of the instrument.
Any orchestral player will either have a set of A and Bb clarinets, or rent or borrow an A if they need one so they can cover the repertoire on the instrument that's scored (or find a practical solution if a particular instrument works better than what has been scored for), but it will be rare to find Bb parts that descend to written low Eb or D for a Bb clarinet as the A clarinet will descend to the concert Db/C# (likewise a full Boehm Bb will) and the low concert C won't be written for Bb/A clarinet at all.
In the rare instance you find a full Boehm A clarinet (descending to low Eb), that will give you the low concert C (same as the lowest note on a viola or 5-string violin), though for clarinet quartet or quintet the viola/alto part can be covered by an alto clarinet or basset horn to add more tonal depth and texture to the sound rather than three sopranos and a bass clarinet.
And with the low D - makers will differ as to where the low D key will be fitted. Will it be for the LH pinkie or RH thumb? Or will it be both LH and RH pinkies, or for LH and RH pinkies AND RH thumb? It will add a considerable amount to the cost - maybe prohibitive - and makers won't want to take the financial risk of making a clarinet that needs all the extra tooling (which will inflate the price to cover for this) if they won't be sold in the same volume as standard clarinets.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Molloy
Date: 2010-05-11 14:02
I am a big fan of being able to reach down to concert C. A full-boehm A clarinet is probably the way to go. Keep your eyes open on the not-to-be-named auction website and you can get a Selmer for less than $1000, possibly even much less than $1000. Also, Amati has a full-boehm A currently in production but an old Selmer is going to be a better horn for about the same price.
If you specifically want a Bb clarinet to low D, I'm pretty sure Steve Fox makes those and I bet some other makers would, too.
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2010-05-11 14:31
I have a full-Boehm A clarinet, made by F. Arthur Uebel, but I have yet to use the low-Eb. It just happens to be a really nice clarinet overall, which is why I play it. I only use it in orchestra.
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Author: pewd
Date: 2010-05-11 14:45
I saw a written low Eb a few weeks ago in La Boheme. Very rare to see this.
- Paul Dods
Dallas, Texas
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Author: cigleris
Date: 2010-05-11 18:42
Paul.
I've played Boheme a lot and don't recall seeing an Eb in it.
You need to get some basset clarinets in Bb and A. I love my A basset clarinet.
Peter Cigleris
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Author: Wes
Date: 2010-05-12 03:00
Yes, I have a one piece Buffet A clarinet with a low Eb. It was made in 1921 of very fine brown wood for a Los Angeles clarinetist named Tarrentino who played with the Hollywood Bowl Orchestra. Along with a companion Bb, it was purchased by me from his widow in 1951, each for $120. They both are fine instruments to this day.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2010-05-12 09:53
Last night I tried using low Eb as a mid Bb substitute on my Series 9 full Boehm A - it was having none of it!
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Molloy
Date: 2010-05-12 11:53
[ Last night I tried using low Eb as a mid Bb substitute on my Series 9 full Boehm A - it was having none of it! ]
Try venting with the lowest trill (Eb/Bb) instead of the register.
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2010-05-12 14:37
Tks, D S, I;ve heard of F B's in A, never have had or seen one. I've had a number of low Eb cls , more common in the largers of course to match the lowest notes of some strings [for their support]. Yes, some of the F B's do have an in-tune mid Bb, often useful, otherwise for me, the Eb is needed for transposing A parts onto Bb. A low D will require about 3" more "tube length", for which I have "jury-rigged" plastic tube "bell-lenthners", which will give a tolerable low D, sacrificing the low Eb. IMHO, Bassets [at much higher cost] are the best solution [to low C] . Don
Thanx, Mark, Don
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Author: Chris Hill
Date: 2010-05-14 13:43
I think the low Eb is only in some editions of Boheme. Kalmus seems to like to transpose operas to all Bb parts, which means that when the original goes to low E on an A clarinet, you're stuck transposing the section back to the original. I don't get it- do they think that no professionals own A clarinets, but everyone plays on a full Boehm?
I found a full Boehm at a local music store, so I bought it just for these bad Kalmus editions that we play. It doesn't sound as good as my regular clarinet, but at least it has all the notes!
Chris
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Author: Caroline Smale
Date: 2010-05-14 16:28
I understand that many Italian professional players used to (maybe still do) play everything on the Bb instrument so for them the low Eb was a must.
Perhaps that also reason for the opera versions for Bb only.
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Author: Ralph Katz
Date: 2010-05-17 01:19
Stephen Fox made a C clarinet with a low D a decade ago for Kurt Bjorling of "Brave Old World". It has an Eb key in the usual place, and a paddle activated by the right thumb for the D. This is very handy for Klezmer tunes which are often in D minor.
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Author: RoBass
Date: 2010-05-18 11:40
A "well established" problem of the extended full Boehms is the correct and stable tune in higher registers. It's difficult enough to correct the necessary overlength for Eb with the standard full instruments.
Why should we bring more problems with an additional key not necessary for typical clarinet literature? Most is written for the standard instrument and played on very well. Transposed literature often sounds bad and not fitted as necessary. I don't like it.
Some ideas are interesting, but if they're useful I would be in doubts ;-) There's a bass or alto for...
kindly
Roman
PS: My full Boehm versions play very well with the Eb, but I use it only for very seldom details during a variation phase or for extemporization. I did'nt find any noted D for the Bb-range clarinet in my literature before (Klezmer included)... Who knows such a piece?
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Author: Molloy
Date: 2010-05-20 23:59
[A "well established" problem of the extended full Boehms is the correct and stable tune in higher registers.]
?? This is the first I've ever heard of such a problem so it doesn't seem "well-established" to me. I have a few full-boehm Selmers from various eras and none of them have any particular tuning problems in the higher registers.
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2010-05-21 01:44
I have a full-Boehm Kohlert from the 1920s as well as a standard-Boehm Kohlert from probably the same year (maybe even the same week, the serial numbers are that close!), and they play as identically as two clarinets could. No problems in the upper register (or any other) with the full-Boehm instrument.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2010-05-21 10:49
I've played several types of Selmer clarinet from 17/6 through to 20/6 (full Boehm) and can't say there's been any difference in the intonation or noticed any problems with the tuning in the upper register on any of them - they all play as I expect them to and I haven't had to make any adjustments when changing from one to another.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: RoBass
Date: 2010-05-21 11:41
So the experiences may differ ;-)
But the extra length of the full Boehm models enlarges the parasitic length of the oscillating air and disturbes a stable and good sounding condition. Experienced full-Boehm-players correct this by using a slightly different embouchure set with low throated tones. This effect was tested well with some pros.
It's not a problem for most of us, but is a technical lack of this design. The longer the horn comes, the more different the tone hole design hast to be. Please compare the mensurs of a Bb-model and a alto or bass model! The distance between tone holes in upper part differs from the same in the lower part - the more, the longer the whole instrument is.
The basic bore pattern of every instrument group was developed for one specific tone range. If you wanna move the range, you have to shift the tone holes and to modify the instrument bore and tone hole size overall. It's not easy to add an additional tone by bore only one hole and add some centimeters in length... ;-)
kindly
Roman
PS: I asked a well experienced manufacturer of full Boehm models for some details regarding the design of full Boehms (some time ago), and this was his own answer...
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2010-05-21 12:46
The tonehole layout and sizes between a 19/7 (to low E) and 20/7 (to low Eb) Selmer CT Bb are the same in comparison as they're both built to the same pitch - the only difference is the extra length of the bottom joint at the lower end to gain the extra semitone - at the lower end. All tonehole diameters from the low F tonehole (the lowest tonehole on any standard clarinet) upwards and their relative location are the same as both instruments are built to the same scale.
Comparing a full Boehm Bb with a standard length A clarinet will show the differences in tonehole sizes and locations to accommodate the keywork layout as both instruments are different pitches - the A clarinet will have the toneholes positioned slightly lower down the instrument (positioned a semitone lower in relation to a Bb instrument) and differing diameters. In direct comparison, they don't all line up to where their equivalent toneholes (that issue the same pitch note) are placed on a full Boehm Bb.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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